# Laser Injures Eye of Airborne Delta Airline Pilot **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674 "2004-09-29T15:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/1 "2004-09-29T15:34:20Z")
> **[Laser injures Delta pilot’s eye](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/28/20040928-111356-3924r/)** > > A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said. The news media are reporting that a Delta Airlines first officer yesterday suffered minor retinal injury after a ground-based laser illuminated the plane’s cabin. No other details at this time, other than the plane landed without incident and the first officer won’t fly for a week or so. Not that it would be realistic, but would wearing the standard-issue laser goggles provided to researchers in laser laboratories have protected him, or are they effective only in cases of indirect exposure–that is, when looking indirectly at the beam? Obviously, they have some type of limit. It seems evident that the laser in use wasn’t one of those convenience store .1 milliwatt-type lasers (whatever). Just how powerful would this laser have to be to be visually sighted inside an airliner at, say, 30,000 feet–and who would have access to one? What about the issue of beam diffusion? I thought the lasers used at concerts would be difficult to procure, given the possibility of abuse. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/2 "2004-09-29T15:49:37Z")
Commercial laser safety goggles typically have optical densities of 3 or 4. It lets in, in other words, 0.01% to 0.1% of the incident light. Whether or not that’s safe for a direct hit depends on the intensity of the laser. I wouldn’t want to look into a 20 Watt argon laser with it, but you can laugh at a milliwatt HeNe laser. But airline pilots typically wouldn’t want to wear such goggles – why would they? And no one fixed wavelength goggle can protect against all possible lasers. I wouldn’t worry about even a 20 watt laser at 20,000 feet. Beyond a certain distance even a laser beam begins to spread out approximately as the inverse square of the distance. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/3 "2004-09-29T15:54:15Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > I thought the lasers used at concerts would be difficult to procure, given the possibility of abuse. You’d think so, but no. You can routinely find multiwatt lasers for sale on eBay and other similar places, though the prices are generally too high for the casual prankster. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/4 "2004-09-29T16:08:29Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > You’d think so, but no. You can routinely find multiwatt lasers for sale on eBay and other similar places, though the prices are generally too high for the casual prankster. [Dr. Evil] I just want some _sharks_ with some _frickin’ laser beams!_ [/Dr. Evil] ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/5 "2004-09-29T16:14:30Z")
I can’t speak to most of your post, but the lasers used in concerts are not difficult to procure at all. They are very expensive, however - maybe a terrorist with a big bankroll could afford one, but Joe Sixpack certainly couldn’t. For example: (just a random Google search) [Laser Sales and Rentals](http://www.beaminlasers.com) [Yahoo listing of Laser sales and rental places](http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Entertainment_and_Media_Production/Services_and_Equipment/Lighting_and_FX/Lasers/) [Buyer’s Guide for lasers](http://lightingdimensions.com/ar/lighting_buyers_guide_lasers/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/6 "2004-09-29T16:17:42Z")
I would think it’d be really, really hard to aim a laser beam through the window of a plane flying 550mph at 30,000 feet much less get it in a pilot’s eye. Not to mention keeping the laser on target (pilot’s eye) for more than an instant. Seems like a one-in-a-million chance to me even if someone was trying so I doubt pilots need to start wearing protective goggles. Heck…you’d think the ibiquitous aviator sunglasses pilots wear would be sufficient protection from most things less than a concerted attack on the plane. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/7 "2004-09-29T18:32:55Z")
The lasers best suited for an intentional attack on a pilot aren’t the concert/dance club type. Weapons lasers are generally going to be in invisible parts of the spectrum for three reasons: Powerful Infrared lasers are even more plentiful and CHEAP than entertainment type devices. These are the type used for metal working and industrial cutting. That 20W argon might struggle to light a candle while a big, similar-costing CO2 cutter with kilowatts at the aperture could, literally, cut up the airliner’s hull skin. Infrared lasers are invisible and would be easier to keep on a fast moving and blinking target like an eye. One’s best natural eye defence is the ‘blink reflex’. If something, like a 5W emerald green YAG laser comes close to the eye, its owner detects the discomfort and threat and blinks, rendering the weapon ineffective. The only symptoom of a 5W IR laser would be a crashing jet…ok, maybe just an injured pilot. Point is that the first indication of a problem is serious damage. Finally, the attacker’s location is given up as soon as the laser is turned on and aimed towards the sky. Neighbors, the copilot and pilots in other planes are likely to see the beam and can easily trace it back to its source. The only reason to keep the attack laser visible is for some psychological motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/8 "2004-09-29T18:59:29Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Weapons lasers are generally going to be in invisible parts of the spectrum for three reasons: There’s a fourth reason. Lasers operating in the IR have better haze penetrating power than visible-light lasers. Dust, clouds and fog all strongly attenuate visible light but IR, especially the longer wavelengths, passes through quite well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laser-injures-eye-of-airborne-delta-airline-pilot/266674/9 "2004-09-29T19:55:17Z")
The damage doesn’t have to be direct, and the problem has been known for a while. [Some background from NASA](http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/directline_issues/dl7_laser.htm): > [@](#): > > **Flash Blindness** > However, there is a more widespread problem associated with laser shows, that of flash blindness. A sudden flash from a laser or any other bright light causes a spot or halo to remain at the center of the visual field for a few seconds or even a minute, rendering a person virtually blind to all other visual input. At night, a flash destroys the eye’s adaptation to the dark environment; partial recovery of this adaptation is usually achieved in 35 minutes, but full adaptation typically requires 4045 minutes or more. ASRS receives many reports of flash blindness being caused by various light sources, among them: lightning strikes, searchlights, aircraft static discharges or electrical short circuits, reflections from glass high-rise buildings, and even floodlights from golf course driving ranges. A First Officer flying near Miami at night reported just such an experience: > > “At 10,000 feet, approximately 8 miles from downtown, a green laser was being used for a laser light show. The laser flashed directly into my eyes. I was blinded for about 2 seconds. I had trouble with near focus for about 15 seconds. My eyes ‘hurt’ for about 2 minutes. All normal post incident.” (# 149671) > Loss of “night vision” could be particularly dangerous for a single pilot, who has no one else in the cockpit to provide assistance while initial recovery of night vision begins. > > **An Eyeful from "The Strip"** > Las Vegas, Nevada, seems to be a hotbed of laser activity. On any evening, three or four outdoor laser light shows might pierce the skies. These shows have become a major source of pilot complaints and a major recipient of careful scrutiny by the FAA Air Traffic Management office. One crew departing Las Vegas got more than the “eyeful” usually associated with The Strip: > “[On takeoff], at approximately 500 feet AGL, a laser beam of green light struck through the right side window of my cockpit striking my First Officer in the right eye and blinding both he and I for approximately 510 seconds due to the intensity of the light beam. I immediately notified the Tower Controller [who stated] that this had become a recurring problem with the laser show coming from the top of the [hotel] in Las Vegas. We were very fortunate, because this could have been a much more serious situation had the laser struck myself as well as [my First Officer] at a more direct angle, severely blinding both of us and endangering the lives of my passengers and crew.” (# 285091) > > And another pilot, 90 miles south of Las Vegas, reported: > > “I was flying at 31,000 feet. [The captain] saw a bright flash and said look at the laser show in Las Vegas. I looked at Las Vegas and we both got hit in the eyes with a green laser. After we turned our eyes back forward, we both noticed a green glow around the periphery of our vision. This was a momentary condition lasting no more than 10 minutes.”(# 285090)