# Last 747 passenger flight in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 9, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272 "2018-01-09T21:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/81 "2021-03-23T21:59:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Do pilots need to be certified on different variants of the same plane type? Depends. There is a thing called a “type rating” for each large airplane type. For round numbers that represents about a months’ worth of school and simulator. Within the umbrella of a type rating you may be able to operate all the airplanes in the type, or you may need so-called “differences training” to switch from one sub-flavor to another. Differences training is on the order of 1 work-week. DC-9 / MD-80 / MD-90 / MD-95 = B717 are one type rating. DC-9 & MD-80 didn’t / don’t require differences training between them. But yes as between them and MD-90 or MD-95. B757 and B767 have a common type rating. But IIRC the 767-400 is a separate type rating. The B-737 from the original -100 to the latest MAX-9 and soon to be MAX-10 are a common type rating. But the -100/-200 (So called “original 737”) need differences training from the -300/-400/-500 (So called “Classic 737”) which need differences training from the -700 / -800 / -900 (So called “737 NG”). Pre-grounding the MAXes needed only some light reading before NG-qualified pilots could fly them. Post-return to service the MAX-specific training for NG pilots doesn’t officially amount to differences training, but you can see it from there. Call it “differences lite.” IIRC B747-400 was a separate rating from the earlier B747s. The removal of the flight engineer changes a LOT of stuff for the pilots. I’d expect therefore the MD-11 to be a separate type rating from DC-10. The government agencies are not 100% logical and consistent about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/82 "2021-03-23T22:15:11Z")
Late add: Here’s the **[FAA official list of type ratings (small PDF)](http://registry.faa.gov/TypeRatings/?YouCantCacheThis=1616518220)**. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/83 "2021-03-24T13:47:59Z")
Interesting that there is a type rating for a Boeing 314 (Clipper) – going to be tough to get that one. Some other rare planes on there: B-17, PBY5 (Catalina), and Ford Tri-Motor. Didn’t see B-29. Brian ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/84 "2021-03-24T13:53:22Z")
In general, purely military types don’t have such ratings, since the FAA doesn’t regulate their operation. PBYs ended up in civil use after the war, so a rating was created for them. Yes, there is a flying B-29. But I suspect it’s regulated as an “experimental” one-off. There are lots of corner cases in a regulatory scheme of general application. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/85 "2021-03-24T14:07:30Z")
Actually two flying B-29’s - Fifi and Doc Brian ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/86 "2021-03-24T23:49:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IIRC B747-400 was a separate rating from the earlier B747s. The removal of the flight engineer changes a LOT of stuff for the pilots. I’d expect therefore the MD-11 to be a separate type rating from DC-10. The government agencies are not 100% logical and consistent about this stuff. And then there was the MD-10, which wasn’t a new plane but rather a DC-10 airframe retrofitted with a MD-11 style flight deck, thus eliminating the flight engineer. (IIRC FedEx was the only one to ever operate them). Now I wonder if that had a common type rating with the MD-11. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/87 "2021-03-25T14:37:45Z")
As discussed in the several MD-11 related posts above, the MD-11 was a separate type rating. And was operated by a lot of carriers besides just FedEx. Admittedly FedEx (and UPS) are the two largest operators today. The MD-11’s time in the sun as a passenger airplane was very brief; it’s worn a lot better as a freighter. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/88 "2021-03-25T17:30:19Z")
I was talking about the MD- **10** , not the MD-11. Back in the late 1990s or early 2000s, FedEx and Boeing collaborated to take a bunch of their old DC-10s, and replace the cockpits with ones that resembled the cockpit of an MD-11. Those planes got redesignated “MD-10”. Since the flight engineer was eliminated, I assume they couldn’t have the same type rating as a regular DC-10. But since they were pretty similar to an MD-11, I wondered if FedEx’s pilots could fly them with an MD-11 type rating. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/89 "2021-03-25T17:52:50Z")
Oops. Sorry about that. That’s what I get for skimming. My bad. I just checked the FAA PDF cited in post 82 and your surmise is correct. The FAA says the MD-10 freighter conversions require an MD-11 type rating, not a DC-10 type rating. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/90 "2022-06-30T14:19:03Z")
This is as good a place as any to drop this. With increased demand Luftansa is bringing its Airbus 380s out of deep storage and returning them to service next year. > **[German Airliner Will Return the World’s Largest Passenger Aircraft to the Skies](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/german-airliner-return-world-largest-213600169.html)** > > As travel demands rise, and aircraft deliveries fall short, Lufthansa plans to bring the Airbus A380 back next summer. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/91 "2022-07-02T17:52:08Z")
Good to know. I wasn’t aware the 777X was delayed until 2025, mainly (as I understood it) to more stringent cockpit display and control requirements. Back to the OP, I was happy when the plane I was in three days ago in SFO taxied right by a Lufthansa 747, and I could point it out to my kid — “now THAT’S an airplane!” (Also, about a month ago I enjoyed seeing a 727 at Mexico City’s airport — the Federal Police still use that beautiful machine.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/92 "2022-12-08T03:02:40Z")
They won’t stop flying for a while, but there won’t be any more after this past Tuesday. > **[Boeing's last 747 jumbo jet leaves factory after 50-year run](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeings-last-747-jumbo-jet-leaves-factory-after-50-year-run-203034577.html)** > > After 50 years in the sky, the ubiquitous Boeing 747 has reached the end of its runway. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/93 "2022-12-08T03:07:01Z")
I saw the thread title and thought, yes, I knew it was coming to an end. But wow, I didn’t realize it was almost five years ago! A great and beautiful plane, but it had a good run. Still, others have had longer runs. The DC-3 is _ **still** _ flying! > **[How Many DC-3 Are Still Flying?](https://simpleflying.com/dc-3-operation/)** > > Believe it or not, this iconic World War II-era propellor-driven transport continues to fly in various corners of the world! ---
**Author:** ![doc481](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@doc481](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doc481)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/94 "2022-12-08T03:51:00Z")
I had a red eye flight from SFO to ORD years ago. Had an empty middle row of seats (4) so I flipped up all the arm rests, laid down and went to sleep. Nice flight. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/95 "2022-12-09T03:37:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The DC-3 is _ **still** _ flying When I was a kid, we used to fly model aircraft at the local airstrip. One day we arrived to find a Zimbabwean Air Force Dakota with one wheel stuck in a hole. All the paratroopers onboard exited and, with engines of full power, literally pushed the plane out. Then they all boarded and it took off. Around 10 minutes later it made a very low pass and all the paratroopers exited the plane again, this time via parachute. Very cool for a 10 year old. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/96 "2022-12-09T13:16:25Z")
The really sad thing about this is, I used to have Steve Miller’s "Jet Airliner’ on my campfire-level quality singing and guitar playing song rotation. And I still sing along when it’s on the radio, just yesterday in fact. When it gets to the line “…as I get on the 707” I’d update it with “…as I get on the 747” (pronouncing it “seven four seven”, not “seven forty seven”, to fit the 5-syllable rhythm). Now what am I supposed to do?? “…as I get on the Airbus 380”? “…as I get on the Boeing Dreamliner”? Fits rhythmically, but not quite the same. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/97 "2022-12-09T13:44:01Z")
Seven Eight Seven scans just fine. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/98 "2022-12-09T13:49:54Z")
Yeah, I thought of that, but it seems like that model is referred to more by its name Dreamliner than its ‘787’ designation. Whatevs, I haven’t played the song in a long time, though as mentioned I had fun singing along with the radio yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/99 "2022-12-09T15:42:56Z")
There was a thread in Cafe Society about specific models of airplanes mentioned in popular song. There were quite a few Boeing planes, but no Airbus models. [Songs that mention specific models of airplane - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-mention-specific-models-of-airplane/944769) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272/100 "2022-12-09T19:38:16Z")
I flew in 747s many times from the US to various parts of Asia in the 90s. Much of the business class was upstairs in the bump which was I usually was since it was on the company dime. You had to walk up a weird spiral staircase to get there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-747-passenger-flight-in-the-us/806272.md?page=6)