# "Last Crusade" question \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 26, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673 "2011-09-26T17:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/21 "2011-09-26T23:27:03Z")
One surprising exception to the practice of having actors play characters who were far from their actual age was _Saved By the Bell_. While the show was not generally noted for any sense of realism, the cast members were all actually the age of high school students. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/22 "2011-09-26T23:29:25Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > .Meh. > Sean Connery is 12 years older than Harrison Ford, yes, but it’s never bothered me. Believe it or not, it\* is \*possible for an actor to play a character of a different age than himself. Plenty of people played parents of kids too old to be their kids (look at Cary Grant and Jessie Landis in **North by Northwest** – only seven years’ difference), but the winner has to be Dick van Dyke plying the son of Lionel Jeffries in **Chitty Chity Bang Bang** , when he was really six months older. And on the origins of the trap in the OP, have a look at my old Teemings article, **Only the Penitent Duck Shall Pass** [http://teemings.net/series\_1/issue05/penitent.html](http://teemings.net/series_1/issue05/penitent.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/23 "2011-09-26T23:35:23Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Dick van Dyke plying the son of Lionel Jeffries With what? Chocolate? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/24 "2011-09-27T02:22:30Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > /Hijack… > My favorite is Robert Redford at age 48ish playing a 19 year old in the opening act of _The Natural_. I believe Roy Hobbs was played by [another actor](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837944/). ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/25 "2011-09-27T02:45:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One surprising exception to the practice of having actors play characters who were far from their actual age was _Saved By the Bell_. While the show was not generally noted for any sense of realism, the cast members were all actually the age of high school students. I think you are thinking of Beverly Hills 90210. Saved By The Bell mostly starred actors roughly the age they played (they were between 12-17, and played teenagers). ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/26 "2011-09-27T02:59:08Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > If Latin had evolved by that time to the point where they distinguish I and J, shouldn’t Jehovah then start with a J in Latin? If not, then there shouldn’t be both a J and I block. I don’t get that scene This is the conundrum. Once ‘J’ came into fashion (c. 1500), “Jehova[h]” would have been spelled with a J. Before that, it would have been spelled with an I (not without intention, the page I cited above is a 16th Century printing of the first appearance of the name in writing, which dates to 1270). The only way for it to be part of a trap would be if the creators were some sort of medieval prescriptivists who hated the letter J. Actually, maybe that makes sense. “These kids today with their close-fitting breeches and writing their I’s all fancy…” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/27 "2011-09-27T03:50:32Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I think you are thinking of Beverly Hills 90210. Saved By The Bell mostly starred actors roughly the age they played (they were between 12-17, and played teenagers). Isn’t that what I said? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/28 "2011-09-27T12:56:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Isn’t that what I said? yes ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/29 "2011-09-27T13:29:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Oh dear, look what I have started. Funny, the I/J conundrum doesn’t bother me at all. 🙂 I’m a nitpicker. So, it doesn’t bother me or take away from the overall item, but I still like to find out what was inaccurate! I mean, I get that people are wondering about the I/J but what about the giant freaking chasm that allows for this trap? Or how did they get the blades and wood and pulleys and working rope for the traps? Or how do the stones fit nicely but only one falls if you are wrong? Or the painting for the ledge? Of all the things to nitpick, we are focusing on the I/J? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/30 "2011-09-27T13:33:53Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Of all the things to nitpick, we are focusing on the I/J? > > 😃 Welcome to the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/31 "2011-09-27T13:37:48Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > I’m a nitpicker. So, it doesn’t bother me or take away from the overall item, but I still like to find out what was inaccurate! > > I mean, I get that people are wondering about the I/J but what about the giant freaking chasm that allows for this trap? Or how did they get the blades and wood and pulleys and working rope for the traps? Or how do the stones fit nicely but only one falls if you are wrong? Or the painting for the ledge? Of all the things to nitpick, we are focusing on the I/J? > > 😃 And who fixes the stones afterward? But I am picking on the “Only the penitant man shall enter” because I loooooove riddles like these and I hate they don’t make sense. “Only the penitent _and agile_ man shall enter.” My foot. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/32 "2011-09-27T13:52:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One surprising exception to the practice of having actors play characters who were far from their actual age was _Saved By the Bell_. While the show was not generally noted for any sense of realism, the cast members were all actually the age of high school students. One of the things I like about Warehouse 13 is that Claudia is actually the age she is supposed to be. The actress was 19 when she joined the show and basically played a 19 year old. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/33 "2011-09-27T14:03:30Z")
How about the last trap? A leap of faith? Indy would have had no question of faith. The man was there when the Ark of the Covenant was opened and God melted the assembled Nazi’s. The existence of God at the very least is not a matter of faith to him, it is fact. Yet, he takes a moment to worry and apparently summon some faith. More importantly, in a movie universe where God undoubtedly exists, why is there an actual bridge to cross? Wouldn’t it make more sense that a man of faith could of crossed that chasm walking on air? Yet, the movie shows there is a bridge made to fool the eye. It has been pointed out that Indy’s presence in Raiders does nothing to protect the Ark. Similarly, his presence after rescuing Dad in Germany (Austria?) is pointless. The Grail could not be removed from the tomb and its gift of eternal life seems to have only been effective if you remained in the tomb with the Grail. At best the Nazi’s could have brought injured soldiers, one at a time, to the middle of nowhere, to be healed. The course of WWII was not going to be changed by that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/34 "2011-09-27T14:10:54Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > This is the conundrum. Once ‘J’ came into fashion (c. 1500), “Jehova[h]” would have been spelled with a J. Before that, it would have been spelled with an I (not without intention, the page I cited above is a 16th Century printing of the first appearance of the name in writing, which dates to 1270). The only way for it to be part of a trap would be if the creators were some sort of medieval prescriptivists who hated the letter J. Actually, maybe that makes sense. > > “These kids today with their close-fitting breeches and writing their I’s all fancy…” They didn’t have to be prescriptivists. They just had to be tricky. Someone who just knew mediaeval ecclesiastical Latin wouldn’t be good enough. It would have to be someone who knew Latin back when Latin was da bomb. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/35 "2011-09-27T14:24:50Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And who fixes the stones afterward? There’s a company that does that. They also specialize in rolling giant boulders back in place. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/36 "2011-09-27T14:27:43Z")
> [@howye](#): > > How about the last trap? A leap of faith? Indy would have had no question of faith. The man was there when the Ark of the Covenant was opened and God melted the assembled Nazi’s. The existence of God at the very least is not a matter of faith to him, it is fact. Yet, he takes a moment to worry and apparently summon some faith. > > More importantly, in a movie universe where God undoubtedly exists, why is there an actual bridge to cross? Wouldn’t it make more sense that a man of faith could of crossed that chasm walking on air? Yet, the movie shows there is a bridge made to fool the eye. > > It has been pointed out that Indy’s presence in Raiders does nothing to protect the Ark. Similarly, his presence after rescuing Dad in Germany (Austria?) is pointless. The Grail could not be removed from the tomb and its gift of eternal life seems to have only been effective if you remained in the tomb with the Grail. At best the Nazi’s could have brought injured soldiers, one at a time, to the middle of nowhere, to be healed. The course of WWII was not going to be changed by that. God didn’t hide the Grail, men did. I’ve always thought it amusing that if anybody had ever gotten past the “penitent man” challenge, when Indy got to the “name of God” one somebody would have eliminated at least a few choices. The more previous treasure hunters the easier it is! The traps clearly weren’t built to be reset by anyone - who would do it? The blades reset themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/37 "2011-09-27T14:29:27Z")
> [@howye](#): > > How about the last trap? A leap of faith? Indy would have had no question of faith. The man was there when the Ark of the Covenant was opened and God melted the assembled Nazi’s. The existence of God at the very least is not a matter of faith to him, it is fact. Yet, he takes a moment to worry and apparently summon some faith. Similarly, in _Raiders_, Indy says to Marcus, “I don’t believe in magic, all that hocus pocus mumbo jumbo.” Then in _Temple of Doom_, we find that just one year earlier he’d witnessed the magic burning heart ceremony and said the magic words to activate the magic burning rocks on the bridge. I guess even after that he wasn’t convinced yet. > [@howye](#): > > It has been pointed out that Indy’s presence in Raiders does nothing to protect the Ark. Similarly, his presence after rescuing Dad in Germany (Austria?) is pointless. The Grail could not be removed from the tomb and its gift of eternal life seems to have only been effective if you remained in the tomb with the Grail. At best the Nazi’s could have brought injured soldiers, one at a time, to the middle of nowhere, to be healed. The course of WWII was not going to be changed by that. I have to disagree that Indy’s presence in _Crusade_ was pointless. No, the course of the war was not changed, but it’s a more personal story this time. Henry was injured so Indy had to act in his stead to procure the grail. Only after he has done so does Henry realize that he must let it go. To me, it’s much more about that than about Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673/38 "2011-09-27T17:58:26Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I believe Roy Hobbs was played by [another actor](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0837944/). That’s the Roy who sees his father die, then lightning strike the tree that he later makes Wonderboy out of. Redford plays the 19 year old who says goodbye to Iris (also played by Glenn Close as a teen and middle age), strikes out “The Whammer” at the county fair and then attracts the attention of Harriet who shoots him in Chicago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-crusade-question-edited-title/597673.md?page=1)