# Last Dollhouse tonight Jan 29. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923 "2010-01-29T18:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/41 "2010-01-31T22:55:23Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Not sure what you mean by this. Why wouldn’t the Dollhouse have a wheelchair? They had full medical facilities when it was an active House – Actives could and did get hurt during assignments, and bringing a Doll into a hospital instead of being outfitted to handle it themselves would have raised their profile a bit more than they wanted. Mag wasn’t fine, either – she couldn’t walk, at least not well enough to go running around outside. Were you expecting her to be worse, or better, after being shot in the legs? My sense was that they didn’t have full medical in the house - why would they need to? They were a huge corporation with tentacles into much of the medical world. So if they needed to do something major, say, fix Victor’s face, I imagine they sent him out for it. I know they had Paul and the other Mannequin Sociopath hooked up to life support in-house, so I guess they might have had one lying about, but still - yes, it seemed too convenient and I would expect her to be a LOT worse - any human who isn’t a cyborg would be with two major gunshot wounds. Major loss of blood and shock at the very least. She was sitting up and _flirting_. She wasn’t an ex-Navy SEAL or anything, she was an ex-sociology major from Berkeley. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/42 "2010-01-31T23:09:12Z")
Topher was sick and sad and crazy with shouldering the responsibility for all that misery and death and wanted to expiate it as much as possible. If there’d been a whole crate of specially made perfect bomb timers sitting out in plain sight he’d have destroyed them all. He wanted to die and he wanted to take the tech knowledge with him–he died giving something back, which was the best he could possibly hope for. What else would he do? Grow strawberries? Please. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/43 "2010-02-01T05:47:25Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > The show made itself pretty clear that as far as it was concerned, the imprint was the person, and as far as individuals were concerned, a copy felt as real as the original. Even Topher felt this way when he copied himself into Victor to defeat Bennett. As does Star Trek make it clear that transporting someone sends that one person to another location. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s exactly the same as standing there while a machine whirrs around your head making a copy and then eating a bullet. It’s the exact same thing because in every scenario, _you die_. It is irrelevant whether or not another body is running around with your memories, much like suffering amnesia doesn’t mean you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/44 "2010-02-01T07:13:17Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > As does Star Trek make it clear that transporting someone sends that one person to another location. > > Doesn’t change the fact that it’s exactly the same as standing there while a machine whirrs around your head making a copy and then eating a bullet. It’s the exact same thing because in every scenario, _you die_. > > It is irrelevant whether or not another body is running around with your memories, much like suffering amnesia doesn’t mean you’re dead. Yes, yes it does. The writers create the work, not you. You’re opinion of what should happen is irrelevant. You can go around fanwanking however you want, but that doesn’t change what appeared onscreen. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/45 "2010-02-01T10:06:37Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Topher was sick and sad and crazy with shouldering the responsibility for all that misery and death and wanted to expiate it as much as possible. If there’d been a whole crate of specially made perfect bomb timers sitting out in plain sight he’d have destroyed them all. He wanted to die and he wanted to take the tech knowledge with him–he died giving something back, which was the best he could possibly hope for. What else would he do? Grow strawberries? Please. There was a timer on the device, actually. See here: [http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2905/vlcsnap2010013101h53m47.png](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2905/vlcsnap2010013101h53m47.png) Topher didn’t set it because he wanted to die. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/46 "2010-02-01T10:52:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, yes it does. The writers create the work, not you. You’re opinion of what should happen is irrelevant. You can go around fanwanking however you want, but that doesn’t change what appeared onscreen. So you’d happily eat the bullet then. EDIT: Were you moved when Echo and Sierra murdered all those innocent people? The rest of us just saw them smashing electronic components, but you seem to be saying that an electronic copy is actually that person. So destroying those memory sticks was mass murder, right? The writers of Star Trek never addressed the idea that transporting actually kills the person, so your appeal to “writers are gods” falls short. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/47 "2010-02-01T14:53:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > So you’d happily eat the bullet then. > > EDIT: Were you moved when Echo and Sierra murdered all those innocent people? The rest of us just saw them smashing electronic components, but you seem to be saying that an electronic copy is actually that person. So destroying those memory sticks was mass murder, right? > > The writers of Star Trek never addressed the idea that transporting actually kills the person, so your appeal to “writers are gods” falls short. Er - I thought those USB sticks just carried skillsets, not whole personalities. You’re talking about the sticks the techheads carried on necklaces, right? ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/48 "2010-02-01T15:07:01Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > This is philosophically how teleportation works in all science fiction. It’s just that instead of something so gauche as a bullet to the head, your body gets disintegrated. Being reintegrated somewhere else doesn’t mean you weren’t killed when you were disintegrated in the first place. Just like in the above example, where imprinting the copy of you on another body doesn’t mean you didn’t die when I shot you in the head. > [@EllisDee](#): > > The writers of Star Trek never addressed the idea that transporting actually kills the person, so your appeal to “writers are gods” falls short. No. Teleportation in Star Trek physically disassembles you at the subatomic level, shoots your real particles to a new location, and reassembles them there. No part of you is copied or destroyed. See here: [Transporter | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transporter) . ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/49 "2010-02-01T15:44:49Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > No. Teleportation in Star Trek physically disassembles you at the subatomic level, shoots your real particles to a new location, and reassembles them there. No part of you is copied or destroyed. See here: [Transporter | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transporter) . I believe that if you copied my brain into a new body, I would continue in the new body. I am not my body, so I don’t feel like death of my body would be the death of myself. I don’t have to worry about hypotheticals like “would you eat the bullet” because this is make-believe TV stuff. That being said, what about the STNG episode where the transporter DID copy Ryker and there were 2? > **[TNG Episode: \`\`Second Chances'', Stardate 46915.2](http://stng.36el.com/st-tng/episodes/250.html)** ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/50 "2010-02-01T16:08:24Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > So you’d happily eat the bullet then. > > EDIT: Were you moved when Echo and Sierra murdered all those innocent people? The rest of us just saw them smashing electronic components, but you seem to be saying that an electronic copy is actually that person. So destroying those memory sticks was mass murder, right? Wasn’t every “dumbshow” or “butcher” killed also an innocent murdered? It’s hard to figure where the actual person begins or ends. The concept of “what makes you you” is part of what’s interesting about this show. Caroline was co-existing in 2 seperate bodies. Which one was Caroline? The correct answer is neither. They are new people based on Caroline up to a point. If I was copied and put into another body, I’d imagine that both copies of me would not want to take the bullet. If I was at death’s door, and I could be copied and put into a healthier body, to the “new me” it’ll feel like life extension. The “old me” (current me? original me?) still dies, and I’d imagine I wouldn’t want to die. I guess I think both arguements here are right. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/51 "2010-02-01T16:08:56Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Er - I thought those USB sticks just carried skillsets, not whole personalities. You’re talking about the sticks the techheads carried on necklaces, right? Yeah, that one fell flat, eh? My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/52 "2010-02-01T18:45:32Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > With all due respect to anyone who watched broadcast and was displeased because seeing Epitaph One was necessary to the finale: I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy Epitaph Two, but honestly, there’s no reason for Joss & Co. to care much about pleasing casual viewers. They knew it was the end - there was no call for keeping an audience or appealing to less hard-core fans. Joss had a story he wanted to tell, and the rabid fans had seen E1 and wanted to see a resolution to that plot. How did one get to see E1? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/53 "2010-02-01T19:10:31Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > How did one get to see E1? Season 1 DVD, or a fortuitous trip to Europe around the time it was broadcast there. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/54 "2010-02-01T19:16:29Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Season 1 DVD, or a fortuitous trip to Europe around the time it was broadcast there. Ah. I watched the beginning of the last episode and was completely lost. I hoped there was a way to get up to speed, but I doubt I’ll be buying the DVD package. Thanks. ETA : So is the series finale Epitaph 2? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/55 "2010-02-01T19:22:17Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Ah. I watched the beginning of the last episode and was completely lost. I hoped there was a way to get up to speed, but I doubt I’ll be buying the DVD package. Thanks. > ETA : So is the series finale Epitaph 2? Yes. That was it. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/56 "2010-02-01T19:22:20Z")
I kind of wish that Joss had just planned on 26 episodes from the beginning. I’m pretty sure the premise would not have held up over 7 years. As it was, he managed to wrap it, but was rushed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/57 "2010-02-01T19:26:57Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Season 1 DVD, or a fortuitous trip to Europe around the time it was broadcast there. Or buy it from Amazon for a whopping $1.99. It was Fox’s decision not to air the episode. Just as they chose not to re-run _any_ of the episodes–say on a night other than Friday. Or in a marathon to actually promote the show. Nobody gets paid residuals for episodes viewed on HULU or other free online sources… ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/58 "2010-02-01T19:29:05Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Or buy it from Amazon for a whopping $1.99. Can you link to that? The cheapest I see there is $18.99 used. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/59 "2010-02-01T19:33:46Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Can you link to that? The cheapest I see there is $18.99 used. Here it [is](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L9LMPU). ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923/60 "2010-02-01T19:36:20Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Here it [is](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001SE9LY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-video&qid=1265052783&sr=8-1). That only works if I have a home computer, right? I’m not actually purchasing a disc, but a one time download? If so, it doesn’t work for me. I don’t have the ability to watch movies on a computer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-dollhouse-tonight-jan-29/526923.md?page=4)