# Last President to have slaves?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 25, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382 "2019-12-25T02:13:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/1 "2019-12-25T02:13:22Z")
Who was the last President to have slaves in the White House?
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/2 "2019-12-25T02:36:28Z")
Grant owned handful of slaves and was probably the last slaveholder who became president, but he’d freed them before the Civil War.
It looks like [Zachary Taylor](https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves) has the dishonor, though it’s unclear if he used them at the White House.
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/3 "2019-12-25T05:00:41Z")
Per the [White House Historical Association](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=22045729):
> [@](#):
>
> According to surviving documentation, at least nine presidents either brought with them or hired out enslaved individuals to work at the White House: Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, James K. Polk, and Zachary Taylor.
Adams certainly is a surprising name on the list, although as the site points out,
> [@](#):
>
> The president’s salary was initially $25,000—a lot of money for the time—but all expenses for the house, including wages for the servants, were expected to come out of that amount. It was not enough to maintain the house properly, so there was no realistic way an individual president could afford to keep up the house without either enslaved staff or extensive personal wealth.
On the other hand, later presidents seem to have managed. Anyway, Taylor is the last name on the list.
> [@](#):
>
> According to surviving documentation, at least twelve presidents were slave owners at some point during their lives: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James Polk, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, and Ulysses S. Grant.
Johnson was the last slave owner in point of time. He did not emancipate his personal slaves until August 8, 1863. Grant was indeed the last slave owner who became president, but he had freed his only known slave, whom he had inherited, in 1859.
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/4 "2019-12-25T11:24:50Z")
Since the OP’s question has been answered… Do interns count as slaves?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/5 "2019-12-25T15:05:15Z")
Apparently the burden of staffing and maintaining the WH fell on the early presidents.
Today it’s completely different. The WH domestic staff is already in place. It doesn’t matter who gets elected. The staff continues their duties.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/6 "2019-12-25T15:56:19Z")
Interns only count as slaves if they’re there against their will. Slavery is involuntary servitude, not unpaid servitude.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/7 "2019-12-25T16:54:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Apparently the burden of staffing and maintaining the WH fell on the early presidents.
>
> Today it’s completely different. The WH domestic staff is already in place. It doesn’t matter who gets elected. The staff continues their duties.
The staff is now civil service and paid for, but the First Family’s personal expenses [are not](https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/president-pay-groceries/).
> [@](#):
>
> The president of the United States pays for meals for himself, his family and personal guests. This includes the First Family’s private Thanksgiving meal. The First Family must also pay for their own household expenses, down to the toothpaste and the First Lady’s clothing. Although the president pays his family’s personal meals, the White House chefs who often prepare the president’s meals are paid by the government.
>
> The president also pays for private parties, such as birthday parties. For example, at Michelle Obama’s 50th birthday bash, President Obama actually paid for the food and beverages, waiters and servers and setup and cleanup crews.
That [also includes some wages](https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/10/politics/presidential-debt/index.html).
> [@](#):
>
> Former first lady Laura Bush wrote in her post-White House memoir that she was expected to pick up the tab for every meal she ate at the White House or the presidential Camp David retreat – for her husband’s two terms.
>
> “The presidential room, as it were, is covered, but not the board,” she wrote in her book, “Spoken from the Heart.”
> …
> Bush wrote that a bill came monthly, itemizing everything she and her family owed, including food, dry cleaning and hourly wages for waiters and cleanup crews at private parties.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/8 "2019-12-26T19:10:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Apparently the burden of staffing and maintaining the WH fell on the early presidents.
When Washington was elected President, he declared he didn’t want a salary. He only asked to be reimbursed for the expenses he incurred. And everyone was saying “He’s so noble.”
Then they started getting the bills for his expenses. They were far higher than the amount Congress had planned on paying him. When Washington left office, Congress insisted that subsequent Presidents go on a salary and a pre-set expense account.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/9 "2019-12-26T20:50:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> When Washington was elected President, he declared he didn’t want a salary. He only asked to be reimbursed for the expenses he incurred. And everyone was saying “He’s so noble.”
>
> Then they started getting the bills for his expenses. They were far higher than the amount Congress had planned on paying him. When Washington left office, Congress insisted that subsequent Presidents go on a salary and a pre-set expense account.
Sort of true. Washington led the army f[or expenses only](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005R17ZNM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) and proceeded to live a fairly lavish lifestyle. He asked for the same deal as president, but Congress, remembering his expenses as general, insisted on a salary.
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### Author:  [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magic_Pig_Detective)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/10 "2019-12-28T00:44:18Z")
Bill Clinton.
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### Author:  [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/11 "2019-12-28T01:55:01Z")
> [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](#):
>
> Bill Clinton.
I thought they were willing subs?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/12 "2019-12-28T02:02:52Z")
**[Moderating]**
**Magic Pig Detective** , even if that attempt at a joke made sense, this is not the place for it. This is an official Warning for political potshots in General Questions.
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### Author:  [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magic_Pig_Detective)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/13 "2019-12-28T03:54:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> **[Moderating]**
>
> **Magic Pig Detective** , even if that attempt at a joke made sense, this is not the place for it. This is an official Warning for political potshots in General Questions.
Not a joke. [Twitter Erupts Over News That Hillary Clinton Used Black Prison Labor While First Lady of Arkansas](https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-prison-labor-african-americans-arkansas-622209)
I’ll concede that my response was inaccurate because Bill wasn’t president when this happened. Nevertheless, the warning should be rescinded.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/14 "2019-12-28T04:21:14Z")
The 13th Amendment provides that “involuntary servitude” is permissible “as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall be duly convicted”. By definition, it is not slavery.
> **[Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution | Text](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text)**
>
> Slavery existed and was legal in the United States of America upon its founding in 1776. It was established by European colonization in all of the original thirteen American colonies of British America. Prior to the Thirteenth Amendment, the United States Constitution did not expressly use the words slave or slavery but included several provisions about unfree persons. The Three-Fifths Compromise, Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, allocated Congressional representation based "on...
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### Author:  [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magic_Pig_Detective)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/15 "2019-12-28T04:34:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> The 13th Amendment provides that “involuntary servitude” is permissible “as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall be duly convicted”. By definition, it is not slavery.
>
> [Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text)
I’m aware of the 13th Amendment. Prison labor under mass incarceration is modern day slavery.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/16 "2019-12-28T04:48:18Z")
Lessee: conflict between Personal opinion of someone posting on the internet, or the express text of the Constitution?
Think I’ll go with “What is the express text of the 13th Amendment?”, Alex.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/17 "2019-12-28T04:58:04Z")
> [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](#):
>
> Not a joke. [Twitter Erupts Over News That Hillary Clinton Used Black Prison Labor While First Lady of Arkansas](https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-prison-labor-african-americans-arkansas-622209)
>
> I’ll concede that my response was inaccurate because Bill wasn’t president when this happened. Nevertheless, the warning should be rescinded.
> [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](#):
>
> I’m aware of the 13th Amendment. Prison labor under mass incarceration is modern day slavery.
**Moderator Note**
That’s not what the OP is asking about. Let’s drop the hijack.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/18 "2019-12-28T07:11:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> Sort of true. Washington led the army f[or expenses only](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005R17ZNM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) and proceeded to live a fairly lavish lifestyle. He asked for the same deal as president, but Congress, remembering his expenses as general, insisted on a salary.
My mistake. I wasn’t remembering the events correctly.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/19 "2019-12-28T07:13:47Z")
> [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](#):
>
> Not a joke. [Twitter Erupts Over News That Hillary Clinton Used Black Prison Labor While First Lady of Arkansas](https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-prison-labor-african-americans-arkansas-622209)
>
> I’ll concede that my response was inaccurate because Bill wasn’t president when this happened. Nevertheless, the warning should be rescinded.
I’m not a moderator. But I feel your point might have been acceptable if you had made it in your initial post rather than just throwing Clinton’s name out and then waiting until a follow-up post to explain why you were doing so.
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### Author:  [@Magic\_Pig\_Detective](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magic_Pig_Detective)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-president-to-have-slaves/845382/20 "2019-12-28T16:35:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I’m not a moderator. But I feel your point might have been acceptable if you had made it in your initial post rather than just throwing Clinton’s name out and then waiting until a follow-up post to explain why you were doing so.
Fair enough, but now that that’s been clarified my warning should be reversed.
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