When I read the book eons ago, I had the impression that the drafted docs were all frat boys fresh out of med school.
Hawkeye claims at one point to have been a young kid during WWII - which doesn’t make sense either. If he’s a doctor in Korea, he would have been teen at the youngest during WWII.
Thank you for posting that citation. I almost wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen your quotation there. I think they screwed up with that line. The rest of the show indicates Korea was where he was drafted to right after getting out of university with his M.D.
Yes, thank you. That line, as well as the line that @Andy_L quotes, indicates to me that the writers weren’t always consistent with the characters’ backstory details, and didn’t let precedent stop them from writing what they thought was a funny line.
Season 2, Episode 5: Dr. Pierce and Mr. Hyde
Oh, World War II.
Lotta nice songs
came out of that war.I’ll be home for Christmas
#You can count on me #
You know that song?
Uh, no, I guess that was
a little before my time.I remember lying on the rug, listening
to them sing that on the radio.I can still smell the rug.
So Hawkeye was lying on the rug listening to that in 1943 (when the song came out).
Of course given how old Alda was that doesn’t make much sense. But neither does a Korean War that lasted 8 years. Neither does a mobile hospital that only moved once or twice. The front line was very fluid until the end phase and they would have moved a lot. That show has a lot of inconstancies
Meaning that, during the same season of the show, they made a reference to Hawkeye apparently being a kid during World War II, as well as apparently being an adult during that same period (as @Loach shared). Inconsistent, indeed.
I note that Alan Alda wrote that episode, and since he was born in 1936, he is of just the right age to have been lying on a rug listening to “I’ll Be Home For Christmas”
Which also made him too young to serve in the Korean War. He did serve in Korea during his short stint as an Army officer in the late 50s. He was 16 when the war ended.
It’s terribly common for writers to forget that their characters are of a different era than they are.
The front line was no longer fluid in the last year of the war, which is what the Hornberger book and everything since is based on. So the Korean War that lasted for 11 years in the show was really only based on a portion of the actual 3 year war, not all of it.
There was an episode that specifically said that the Chinese had entered the war and that it’s a “whole new war.” They also mentioned MacArthur being fired. So that puts the front at the Yalu River and then the retreat back to the 38th. At least part of the series had to be before the static part of the war.
I suppose I could justify the lack of apparent hospital motion by suggesting that they only showed the hospital moving once or twice, but that it moved sometimes between episodes without being mentioned - but one episode has them being in the same spot long enough to grow corn and harvest it… Oh well.
No effort was made to timeline the series. The writers felt free to pick events from any time during the war, even if it was Season 5 and a later event had already been chronicled in Season 2.
Other than Hornberger, the other book I have read on the Korean MASHes is by Otto Apel, who was an advisor on the TV show as well. Apel served earlier in the war than Hornberger did. There were differences between Apel and Hornberger as people. Apel could have gotten a place in a reserve unit Stateside, as many of his friends were, but offered to take service because he thought it his duty. He also took an extension of four months on his service at a MASH when the Army asked him to. So he more or less wanted to be there. Apel paints a picture of a MASH that is less physically established, more struggles in that regard than we saw on the show. But also a more innocent and optimistic tone.
There’s a fascinating passage where Apel returns to his unit after some months, now based in Tokyo but having completed his MASH service. He’s repulsed by what he sees as the moral decay and debauchery of the unit, including the establishment of an officer’s club.
So despite the occasional bug out episodes, and insertion of historical events wherever, in spirit the MAS*H entertainment bloc was based on the later years of the war, not the earlier, fluid ones.
Hawkeye wasn’t a freshly minted MD. From Season 1, Episode 4:
- Face it. Pierce is the best cutter in the outfit.
He’s certified in chest and general surgery.
From the American Board of Thoracic Surgery:
How do you become a board certified cardiothoracic surgeon?
Obtain a 4-year undergraduate degree in pre-med with an emphasis on science. Attend and graduate from a 4-year medical school. Complete a 5-year general surgery residency program. Enter a 2- or 3-year cardiothoracic surgery residency program, or enter a 6-year integrated cardiothoracic surgery residency.
@silenus The standards you quote seem like the current-day ones. Back over half a century ago, they were not so stringent. Even then, during wartime they threw out the rules/requirements for training. I worked with a doc whose med school class was rushed through in 3 years, and then right after that they were all sent out to MASH units in WW II. Residencies, fellowships likewise got shortened, or the student/doc just got yanked out of them. My senior attendings back in med school (1979-83) were often WW II docs who got pushed through accelerated curriculums, went to war, and considered themselves lucky to get into private practice when the war was over. Many did get called up again for Korea.
A qualified chest cutter back in that era might have done a general surgery internship where he got to do a bunch of thoracic cases.
@ Qadgop_the_Mercotan Question then: Would they still be “Certified?” Or would they be called “Good Enough For Government Work” and shipped off, and have to do legit certification when they got out?
Of course, the TV show is different than the book and movie, where it was Trapper who was the chest cutter.
As far as getting called up again, my dim understanding of the process is that it was highly parochial and political.
Ted Williams, the baseball player, got called up for Korea after already missing three years of his career for World War II. This was not a particularly common process; few if any other players that had served in WWII were called back. Williams also was unusual in that he actually saw combat as a pilot, unlike others such as Joe DiMaggio who spent their service time playing baseball on base teams.
Williams remained in the Inactive Reserves and was called up due to that status. I am assuming Inactive Reserves were people willing to remain on such a callup list without actively continuing training. Williams did not continue to fly or maintain any skills post WWII. Williams complained at the time that the Active Reserves (people actually meeting and practicing) were bypassed in favor of the Inactive Reserves. One can only imagine that the Active Reserves contained people bypassing actual service and obtaining their positions through political connections, consequently the Armed Services “overlooking” this available force in favor of the Inactive Reserves.
Williams was offered a chance to play service ball but opted to enter into combat again. The offer to play service ball, which obviously would have required procurement of another actual pilot, again perhaps indicates the political nature of the process of who exactly was called up, or called up again.
It was a different era. It wasn’t until the late 20th century that much attention was paid to specialty board certification, much less subspecialty certification. It mattered most, when it did at all, if one was competing for the top spots at academic hospitals like Mass General or Johns Hopkins. Acceptance for positions depended more on letters of recommendation from those folks respected in a particular field or by a particular institution.
From what I’ve heard and read, many docs did return from war and pursued more training, but quite a few did not, considering their wartime experience to have been sufficient to learn what they needed to know for what they wanted to do.
Regarding certification, from Professionalism and Accountability
“For the first several decades of the US board certification process, it was a truly voluntary system and was considered a mark of excellence and extra professional achievement. Indeed, many early leaders in the field were not board certified and most patients would not have considered inquiring about a physician’s certification status.”
Nowadays, a physician without board certification is pretty marginalized, and rather limited in finding work. I spend a good chunk of time each year doing what’s needed to maintain my certification, because my certification status alone increases my salary by over 25%.
Went to a screening of Strangers on a Train last night, and the only surviving member of the main cast is Patricia Hitchcock who played Barbara Morton. The film was released in 1951, which has to put it in contention for oldest move with one surviving cast member.