# Last unashamedly pro-war mainstream movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [April 21, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035 "2023-04-21T22:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/81 "2023-04-30T17:37:14Z")
I was watching _Jarhead_ the other day. That’s a pretty pro-war (or at least pro USMC) film. Even though there’s very little actual combat (a point made several times throughout the film) the film spends a lot of time focusing on the psychological struggles of being deployed and how the Marines overcome them to do their duty. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/82 "2023-05-01T18:15:31Z")
Any film that takes the piss out of American Imperialism is alright in my book. Satire or no. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/83 "2023-05-01T19:01:26Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And yet we are supposed to believe they somehow pulled an asteroid out of it’s orbit and somehow targeted Buenos Aries, S.A., Earth, Sol System from a hundred light years away? Or did the Federation use a random asteroid collision as a pretext for war? This is something that’s a perennial problem for me with a lot of sf. _Are_ we supposed to take into account the astronomical unlikeliness of the bugs hitting Buenos Aires with an asteroid into account when we assess the movie? Or is this just another movie that doesn’t really understand how big space actually is? > [@msmith537](#): > > Good satire tends to also send a clear satirical message and still has to tell a compelling and cohesive story. I think that is where Starship Troopers kind of falls flat in that it ultimately just sort of plays like a standard 90s action/war movie told in a somewhat satirical tone. Yeah, my big problem with ST’s satire is it’s not really clear what’s being satirized. “American Imperialism?” Okay, but nothing about the movie feels like its talking about America. None of the characters are American, none of the film (I think) takes place in America, and the American government is just part of a wider global government. “Fascism?” Just saying “fascism is bad” isn’t that interesting a statement, unless you’re connecting it to some specific real-world analog, and I’m not sure who that’s supposed to be here. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/84 "2023-05-01T19:25:28Z")
I haven’t watched Jarhead since before my own military experience, but my impression at the time was it was trying very hard to be a modern Full Metal Jacket and not doing a particularly good job of it. I suppose I should watch it again. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/85 "2023-05-02T03:16:18Z")
The Federation probably engineered the collision. Not used a happy accident as a pretext. It doesn’t feel like its talking about America? All the actors ARE (I assume for the most part) Americans and use American accents. Despite names like Rico, Flores, Ibanez… A vast, overconfident army plunges headfirst into a war halfway across the wo…galaxy and promptly gets their asses handed to them by an underdeveloped backwards race? That doesn’t sound American? Our stereotypical, beautiful leads are supposed to be the heroes, but they dress in Nazi-like garb, execute POWs, engage in massive propaganda (including asking kids to step on cockroaches at home??") But again…I respect all opinions here. FWIW…the director said its a satire on American Militarism…a close producer concurred but said its more about world history, the America specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/86 "2023-05-02T05:17:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > A movie like Grave of the Fireflies is one of the few films that really imparts an undeniable anti-war argument. Interestingly, the director has directly stated that GotF is not intended to be an anti-war movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/87 "2023-05-02T05:33:10Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > It doesn’t feel like its talking about America? All the actors ARE (I assume for the most part) Americans and use American accents. Despite names like Rico, Flores, Ibanez… Like the asteroid strike, this is a good example of something in the movie where it’s not clear if it’s a creative decision, or just lazy film making. It’s a common trope in science fiction that everyone has an American accent, even when the character clearly isn’t meant to be American. Luke Skywalker has an American accent, but the audience isn’t meant to assume that he’s from America, it’s just understood that it’s easier and less goofy to have the actor speak in their normal voice instead of trying to make up a “space accent.” In Starship Troopers, we know that the characters aren’t American, but America _does_ exist in that universe. They’re just specifically not from there. But they have American accents. Is the audience supposed to view that as significant information, or is it just the standard “everyone in American movies has an American accent” trope? > [@Pavelb1](#): > > A vast, overconfident army plunges headfirst into a war halfway across the wo…galaxy and promptly gets their asses handed to them by an underdeveloped backwards race? That doesn’t sound American? Well, in the movie, they _win_, so no, doesn’t sound all that American. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > Our stereotypical, beautiful leads are supposed to be the heroes, but they dress in Nazi-like garb, execute POWs, engage in massive propaganda (including asking kids to step on cockroaches at home??") Right, my point wasn’t that they don’t read as “fascist,” it’s that they don’t read as _American_ fascists. I mean, they dress like Nazis, and are blonde and blue eyed Argentinians, which is clearly meant to be a reference to the Nazis who escaped to South America after the war. How is this about American fascism? It’s just German fascism again. It’s like that adage, “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.” As a satire of American fascism, the film doesn’t have any real understanding of what fascism looks like in America. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > FWIW…the director said its a satire on American Militarism…a close producer concurred but said its more about world history, the America specifically. Oh, I’m not doubting the _intent_, just the execution. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/88 "2023-05-02T06:36:38Z")
GD…I miswrote. It should read “A close producer concurred but said its more about world history…NOT…America specifically.” Also, in the movie they don’t win. They complete a very important mission, but its far from over. Another thing that I’ve never seen mentioned but is an observation on my part. By the end of the film, the Feds are fielding former drill instructors and maimed classroom instructors. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/89 "2023-05-02T10:18:41Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Any film that takes the piss out of American Imperialism is alright in my book. Satire or no. I suppose that’s where we differ. While espousing political opinions I don’t agree with may make me like a movie less, having politics I do agree with won’t make me like a movie more. In fact, I will dislike any movie that I sense is preaching at me, _even if I agree 100% with what it is preaching._ I just want the movie to be good. Anything else is incidental. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/90 "2023-05-02T12:59:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, I’m not doubting the _intent_, just the execution. I doubt the intent. They tried to sell it to fans as the book, not a rip-off of the book. **I was there.** The producers showed up at World Con (LACon III) to build hype for the movie. They even recruited a bunch of fans to play the crowd for that stupid game they played in Act 1. Not once did they tell the truth about the film. (No wonder. If they had told the truth, we would likely have fed them to the lions.) It’s not satire - it’s just a shitty movie made by a hack director. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/91 "2023-05-02T15:51:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I doubt the intent. They tried to sell it to fans as the book, not a rip-off of the book. What the director intended is often different than what the marketing guys sell. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/92 "2023-05-02T15:53:43Z")
Which is often different than what either ends up with. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/93 "2023-06-24T23:48:49Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > I believe the “latest” title has now been passed to _Guy Ritchie’s The Covenant_ (full title), which was released this past weekend. A tale of manly men, one a lone wolf American and one a lone wolf Afghan, who manage to mow down wave after wave of Taliban ~~Startroopers~~ warriors. By my estimate, they manage to kill about 500-1000 of these fighters (I am not exaggerating), who never figure out that once they have them pinned down, they can take positions and wait them out. I just saw this movie and you are most definitely exaggerating. The two main characters take out maybe a few dozen soldiers between them, probably half of those in surprise attacks where the opposition doesn’t even get the chance to fight back. There may be something like another 50 plus casualties in the big battle at the end, but the vast majority of those are not accomplished by the protagonists. It’s still all highly improbable, but it’s pretty standard action movie fare. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035/94 "2023-06-27T15:34:30Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > A movie like Grave of the Fireflies is one of the few films that really imparts an undeniable anti-war argument. > > Interestingly, the director has directly stated that GotF is not intended to be an anti-war movie. For more context: The original book was a semi-autobiography and the director of the film says that he was not trying to create the film with some dogmatic agenda, nor does he expect the film to bring peace to the world. I can certainly see that last. For some, it would be dispiriting to create a thing that explains why war is bad, and then everyone goes off and merrily engages in war. Better to just accept that you’re telling a story of war, and accepting that war is going to continue. Personally, I’d say that he’s underselling himself, though. It is probably true that most people will never learn the lessons of war, because of films like Grave of the Fireflies. But I suspect that the number of people who are entirely or somewhat opposed to it will be just that ever bit so much larger because of the film - and that extra few might be the amount needed to keep things from getting out of control in at least some cases that are on the borderline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-unashamedly-pro-war-mainstream-movie/983035.md?page=4)