# Last Week: Screw You Boss, We're Joining a Union / This Week: Whaddya Mean Closing?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812 "2017-11-05T20:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/1 "2017-11-05T20:15:45Z")
[The Guardian reports:](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/03/billionaire-shuts-down-us-and-chinese-news-sites-after-staff-join-union) > [@](#): > > The billionaire backer of a string of local news websites that spanned New York to Shanghai has sparked outrage by shutting them down just a week after reporters in one newsroom voted to unionise. > > In a surprise announcement Joe Ricketts, founder of a discount stock brokerage and Donald Trump backer, closed DNAinfo and Gothamist, sites that chronicled daily life in New York City with local stories. The move leaves 115 journalists out of work, though paid for three more months on “administrative leave”. > . > . > . > “The decision by the editorial team to unionize is simply another competitive obstacle making it harder for the business to be financially successful,” a DNAinfo spokeswoman said. > > The Writers Guild of America East, the union staff voted to join, said it was “deeply concerned” about the decision to shutter the publications: “It is no secret that threats were made to these workers during the organizing drive.” Assuming the “threats,” were along the lines of: _if you unionize I won’t be interested in continuing to bleed money into this operation_, then. . . I’d be deeply concerned too, but for different reasons than the Writer’s Guild. Resolved: the journalists voted against their own interests by voting to join the Writer’s Guild. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/2 "2017-11-05T20:23:48Z")
Good thing governments don’t respond in a similar way when cops and firefighters form unions. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/3 "2017-11-05T20:26:41Z")
It is supposed to be illegal to retaliate against workers for joining a union. But in practice I doubt it usually is. The OP (who is a lawyer) claiming the victims of a crime are to blame for the outcome is kind of absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/4 "2017-11-05T20:28:22Z")
He shut them down with no notice and (initially) deleted their archives. Seems like petulance not commerce. Of course, angering your all-powerful billionaire overlord may well be against your interests. But painting it like it was some simple matter of supply and demand doesn’t seem to match the facts. He wanted to make an example out of them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/5 "2017-11-05T20:40:59Z")
I’ve been assured repeatedly here that billionaires don’t employ people, so perhaps the writers can find a non-billionaire job creator to help them out. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/6 "2017-11-05T20:45:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > It is supposed to be illegal to retaliate against workers for joining a union. > > But in practice I doubt it usually is. > > The OP (who is a lawyer) claiming the victims of a crime are to blame for the outcome is kind of absurd. QFT as it seems some are again blaming the victims indeed. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/7 "2017-11-05T20:45:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve been assured repeatedly here that billionaires don’t employ people, so perhaps the writers can find a non-billionaire job creator to help them out. Would you like to see if you could make an even MORE dishonest restatement of this? Because it would be a tough slog, but I have faith in you. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/8 "2017-11-05T20:49:04Z")
[Other thread on the subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=840739). The fired people are getting “three months of paid “administrative leave” at full salary, plus four weeks of severance, DNAinfo said.” I see no reason that an owner should be required to keep pumping money into a business that is constantly losing money. Especially when the employees are attempting to push the business even further into the red. Businesses exist to make profit for the owners–employment for people is just a fringe benefit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/9 "2017-11-05T20:56:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Other thread on the subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=840739). The fired people are getting “three months of paid “administrative leave” at full salary, plus four weeks of severance, DNAinfo said.” > > I see no reason that an owner should be required to keep pumping money into a business that is constantly losing money. Especially when the employees are attempting to push the business even further into the red. Businesses exist to make profit for the owners–employment for people is just a fringe benefit. Guess billionaires aren’t the God-like job-creators and evaluators of the market as they’re made out to be. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/10 "2017-11-05T20:59:53Z")
Sounds a balanced deal; they get 3 months money, he sinks his businesses: everyone is a loser. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/11 "2017-11-05T21:03:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve been assured repeatedly here that billionaires don’t employ people… Appears that whoever told you that was right. QED. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … so perhaps the writers can find a non-billionaire job creator to help them out. They’ll be up to their ears in JOBS soon as the Trump/GOP “Cut Cut Cut” is passed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/12 "2017-11-05T21:24:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [The Guardian reports:](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/03/billionaire-shuts-down-us-and-chinese-news-sites-after-staff-join-union) > > Assuming the “threats,” were along the lines of: _if you unionize I won’t be interested in continuing to bleed money into this operation_, then. . . I’d be deeply concerned too, but for different reasons than the Writer’s Guild. > > Resolved: the journalists voted against their own interests by voting to join the Writer’s Guild. It’s their lives and they can make of it as they wish, even to ignore your definitions of their “best interests”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/13 "2017-11-05T21:24:10Z")
As I said in the other thread, if the workers think they can make a go of it unionizing, let them buy the business and show everyone how it’s done. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/14 "2017-11-05T21:34:58Z")
That’s called a co-operative, and entirely different from unionization. All the world’s tyrants have hated unions, from the Jacobins on. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/15 "2017-11-05T21:41:32Z")
I’m missing something here. Doesn’t a company owner have the right to close it. Doesn’t even matter if it is losing or making money. Does he have that right? Let me add: The privately held company I work for is being closed. I’m one of the many office workers that will be without a job shortly. I’m pissed at the former owners for selling us for his maximum profit and I have every right to be pissed off, but that does not remove his right to sell the company and retire. He could have just shut the doors if he wanted to. So these writers and the union they joined to me can moan and groan, but in the end the Billionaire did nothing unethical or wrong especially as the business was losing money. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/16 "2017-11-05T21:51:23Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Would you like to see if you could make an even MORE dishonest restatement of this? Because it would be a tough slog, but I have faith in you. This is a warning for personal insults. Do not accuse other posters of lying in this forum. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/17 "2017-11-05T21:59:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As I said in the other thread, if the workers think they can make a go of it unionizing, let them buy the business and show everyone how it’s done. > > Regards, > Shodan Can you imagine a bunch of writers trying to run a business? I can, and it’s mostly very comical. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/18 "2017-11-05T22:04:45Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is a warning for personal insults. Do not accuse other posters of lying in this forum. > > [/moderating] I see nothing insulting about that post at all. Unless you have decided to be the arbiter of what is true and false. Saying that a task is difficult is not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/19 "2017-11-05T22:10:46Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > It is supposed to be illegal to retaliate against workers for joining a union. Short of having an enforceable contract with your employees, which very few US employers do, you can’t be forced to employ people, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812/20 "2017-11-05T22:10:59Z")
> [@MikeG](#): > > I see nothing insulting about that post at all. Unless you have decided to be the arbiter of what is true and false. Saying that a task is difficult is not an insult. 😕 IANAMod, but I don’t see how anybody could read that post as anything but **TimeWinder** accusing **HurricaneDitka** of having made a dishonest statement. Which is not allowed in this forum. **HurricaneDitka** ’s assertion that his ideological adversaries claim that billionaires don’t employ people is certainly inaccurate, but it’s not for us (in this forum, at least) to decide whether it’s a lie, an error or a misstatement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-week-screw-you-boss-were-joining-a-union-this-week-whaddya-mean-closing/800812.md?page=2)