# Lateral Thinking Puzzles. Let's do it again! **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [October 23, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193 "2019-10-23T21:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/141 "2019-11-01T16:39:04Z")
Recap time? The angry man was (more or less) a real man. He was in a position of authority, though not one where he would normally have control of hundreds of millions of dollars. He was involved in politics. He was not involved in business. He was not American, Asian, president of the USA, or Donald Trump. He was not the representative of his country. He was European, but not from Russia, Germany, or a Soviet bloc country. He was not Hitler. He did not take off his shoe and pound it on a table. He did not survive for more than a year after his statement. He was not angry over a health issue, because something needed repairing, because something was misplaced, or because his co-workers and managers were incompetent idiots. He was angry over a matter that involved family or relationships and (to some extent) finance. He was angry at not being listened to. The thing that he said was a declarative statement that expressed his anger, and primarily a matter of opinion rather than fact. It was not a question or an imperative. It was not a statement that denied people access to something, denied the use of something tangible, denied intangible rights to something, claimed or disclaimed responsibility for something, or gave access or rights to something. It was a threat, but not against an American. He was not speaking to a high-profile American, or to an American industrialist. He said it before 1930. The loss of money is because somebody heard what the angry man said and took action as a result. $800 million means 800 million US dollars. The loss of $800 million is borne by the general public, not a specific company or, primarily, the government (although the government may be paying part of it). It is an ongoing expense that fluctuates from year to year, in ways that are not consistent. Inflation and population have some effect on the fluctuation. The money is lost by Americans. It is not part of the cost of the US military, social security, government programs, or related to health care. The expense is not due to war or paying off installments or interest on a debt. The situation does not involve PBS funding, Fred Rogers, or worn-out bills being recycled. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/142 "2019-11-01T16:41:30Z")
Did this take place in the following decades: 1770’s-1930’s: (Please tell me which decade you would say “yes” to) **This is very difficult to answer. _Some_ of the relevant events took place in the 1890s. Others did not take place during these years at all.** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/143 "2019-11-01T17:59:09Z")
Did he only lose $800 million when adjusted for inflation? Did it involve the purchase of land? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/144 "2019-11-01T18:08:53Z")
Did he only lose $800 million when adjusted for inflation? **No, the loss is ongoing, in the present day.** Did it involve the purchase of land? **No.** ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/145 "2019-11-01T18:50:39Z")
Did the angry man actually SAY the thing, verbally, with his mouth? Did the angry man WRITE what he said? Was what he said of a philosophical nature? Did it have economic implications? Was what he said a result of his anger? If he hadn’t been angry, would he still have said it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/146 "2019-11-01T20:06:55Z")
(BTW, I think I might have one after this one is finished) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/147 "2019-11-01T20:08:49Z")
Did the angry man actually SAY the thing, verbally, with his mouth? **It was a verbal utterance.** Did the angry man WRITE what he said? **No.** Was what he said of a philosophical nature? **No.** Did it have economic implications? **No.** Was what he said a result of his anger? **Yes.** If he hadn’t been angry, would he still have said it? **No.** ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/148 "2019-11-01T22:04:49Z")
Does this “more or less” real person have a real mouth that can make sounds in the real world? Is the person a character in some sort of artistic work? (Fiction or nonfiction) An automaton of some kind? A role or title more than an individual holding the title? Is the money that is lost spent on some kind of consumer good? On some other kind of property? On a service? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/149 "2019-11-01T22:20:50Z")
Heh, FINALLY someone followed up on the “more or less” answer! Does this “more or less” real person have a real mouth that can make sounds in the real world? **Yes.** Is the person a character in some sort of artistic work? (Fiction or nonfiction) **Yes.** An automaton of some kind? **No.** A role or title more than an individual holding the title? **No.** Is the money that is lost spent on some kind of consumer good? On some other kind of property? On a service? **None of these is the primary cause of the loss, although some part of the loss may involve expenditures on some or all of these things.** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/150 "2019-11-01T23:33:39Z")
Is this a character in fiction? Is this a character in nonfiction Did angry man really exist in the real world? Does this involve royalties? Does this involve copyright? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/151 "2019-11-02T01:49:12Z")
Is this a character in fiction? **Yes.** Is this a character in nonfiction? **Probably, but the specific work that is relevant is closer to the “fiction” end of the fiction-nonfiction scale.** Did angry man really exist in the real world? **Yes.** Does this involve royalties? **No.** Does this involve copyright? **No.** ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/152 "2019-11-02T05:06:23Z")
Was the action taken as a result of the statement, that somebody sold something that was or would become profitable? Does the loss of 800 million mean that the losers, collectively, are paying that amount per year when they otherwise wouldn’t have had to? Or does it mean that they are failing to receive that amount per year, that they otherwise would have? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/153 "2019-11-02T12:35:32Z")
Was the action taken as a result of the statement, that somebody sold something that was or would become profitable? **No.** Does the loss of 800 million mean that the losers, collectively, are paying that amount per year when they otherwise wouldn’t have had to? **By and large, no, although it may include some expenses that they wouldn’t have otherwise had.** Or does it mean that they are failing to receive that amount per year, that they otherwise would have? **Yes.** ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/154 "2019-11-02T12:50:19Z")
So, just to be clear, the angry man was an actual historical figure active in the 1890s, but the statement in question is known from a portrayal of him in a fictional work. And it was the fictional work that costs people the money. Is that correct? Did the real person actually make the statement in question, or something similar? Was the fictional work : - a novel/ short story/ other written work ? - a poem or song ? - a stage play/ opera ? - a radio broadcast ? - a movie ? - a TV show ? - other ? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/155 "2019-11-02T12:59:29Z")
So, just to be clear, the angry man was an actual historical figure active in the 1890s, but the statement in question is known from a portrayal of him in a fictional work. And it was the fictional work that costs people the money. Is that correct? **No, there is at least one wrong assumption here.** Did the real person actually make the statement in question, or something similar? **Probably not.** Was the fictional work : - a novel/ short story/ other written work ? - a poem or song ? - a stage play/ opera ? - a radio broadcast ? - a movie ? - a TV show ? - other ? **Yes to “stage play / opera”**. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/156 "2019-11-02T13:16:59Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > So, just to be clear, the angry man was an actual historical figure active in the 1890s, but the statement in question is known from a portrayal of him in a fictional work. And it was the fictional work that costs people the money. Is that correct? **No, there is at least one wrong assumption here.** Okay, revise the assumptions. The fictional work was from the 1890’s, depicting a man who lived some time before that. Is \*that \*correct? Was the work censored, or banned from publication or performance? > [@](#): > > Or does it mean that they are failing to receive that amount per year, that they otherwise would have? **Yes**. Did the money go to someone else instead? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/157 "2019-11-02T13:28:58Z")
So we’re talking about a stage play or opera created in the 1890s, based on the life of a real person? Did the actions in this play or opera occur prior to the 1890s? Was this play or opera created by an Italian? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/158 "2019-11-02T13:29:28Z")
The fictional work was from the 1890’s, depicting a man who lived some time before that. Is that correct? **No.** Was the work censored, or banned from publication or performance? **No.** Did the money go to someone else instead? **No.** So we’re talking about a stage play or opera created in the 1890s, based on the life of a real person? **No.** Did the actions in this play or opera occur prior to the 1890s? **Yes.** Is it an opera? **No.** ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/159 "2019-11-02T13:39:20Z")
(Actually, if you want to get really pedantic, the answer to the “Has the work been censored…?” question is probably yes, but any incidents of censorship that may have occurred have no bearing on this puzzle.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193/160 "2019-11-02T14:54:25Z")
Was the play set: - before 1700 ? - 1700 to 1750 ? - 1751 to 1800 ? - 1801 to 1825 ? - 1826 to 1850 ? - 1851 to 1875 ? - 1875 to 1900 ? - after 1900 ? check all that apply. Was the play written - before the 1890’s - in the 1890’s - after the 1890’s Would the play be best described as - Tragedy ? - Comedy ? - Drama ? - Thriller/ Suspense/ Mystery ? - Other ? Is the play likely to be still performed today? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-lets-do-it-again/842193.md?page=9)