# Lateral Thinking Puzzles - third time is best! **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214 "2023-07-18T13:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2541 "2024-09-21T20:57:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, to clean up the mind-reading question a bit: > Was the trick you figured out based on the premise of revealing information that the magician shouldn’t have been able to know? This would encompass “he knew what the card was that the volunteer was holding”, but also “he knew before the performance what note to put in the envelope”, and the like. Yes. > [@](#): > > Did the trick you figured out involve a particularly large number of audience volunteers? Did any trick in the second performance involve that? No to both. > [@](#): > > Was there any change in circumstances in the second show that rendered it impossible for the magician to perform the same trick again? Anything that rendered it, while possible, inadvisable? I’m genuinely not sure what you mean by “change in circumstances.” But — at the risk of being kind of a dick about this — none of these Q&As seem especially, uh, _lateral._ Like, if I’d seen the ostensible volunteer from the first performance show up as an ostensible volunteer or a fully-declared magician’s assistant in the second, the solution is simply A Whole Bunch Of Details I Left Out; instead, if I’d slightly reworded the original post, you’d maybe have had the answer in no time flat. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2542 "2024-09-21T21:05:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But — at the risk of being kind of a dick about this — none of these Q&As seem especially, uh, _lateral._ That’s the thing with these puzzles. In any given puzzle, most of the elements are normal. There’s usually just one or two weird things going on. So we have to rule out all of the parts that actually are normal, before we can narrow down on what the weird part was. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2543 "2024-09-21T21:31:05Z")
Was the second performance a demonstration of how to do magic tricks, in which at least some of the tricks were explained? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2544 "2024-09-21T21:33:46Z")
Nope. (But that’s kind of hilarious. “I’ll patiently show you, step by step, how to do ten different magic tricks. I’m going to really spoon-feed this to you. Am I going too fast? I’ll slow it down.” “Omigosh, you guys: I’m so smart, I just figured out how he does one of his tricks!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2545 "2024-09-22T07:32:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Was there any change in circumstances in the second show that rendered it impossible for the magician to perform the same trick again? Anything that rendered it, while possible, inadvisable? I kind of tabled this question in hopes of getting it clarified, because I wasn’t sure what you had in mind — but I don’t want to _dodge_ a question, so lemme do my best: it’s not that, say, the first performance was indoors at a nightclub, and the second outside in daylight; and it’s not that he was standing next to a big prop the first time, but for some reason was on stage without it the second; and it’s not that he showily gestured with both hands the first time, but had one arm in a sling the second; and it’s not that the audience was seated in front of him the first time, but all around him the second. And I could go on, but my point is that, no, all of those “circumstances” (and anything else of that sort) were apparently unchanged — be it the lighting and the time of day, or the stuff on the stage and his _nothing-up-my-sleeve_ costuming, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2546 "2024-09-22T15:28:18Z")
Does the answer involve twins in any way? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2547 "2024-09-22T15:33:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Does the answer involve twins in any way? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2548 "2024-09-23T00:50:39Z")
Does anybody in this puzzle have a relevant talent or ability _other than_ being a magician? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2549 "2024-09-23T01:16:15Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2550 "2024-09-23T09:56:03Z")
Did he get his hole in one yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2551 "2024-09-23T21:41:55Z")
…since this seems to be losing momentum, should I simply type out the details of that trick from the first performance instead of fielding individual questions about ‘em? ---
**Author:** ![Ana\_Byrd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ana\_Byrd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ana_Byrd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2552 "2024-09-24T00:43:10Z")
Were the two performances intended for the same audience? That is, was it expected that people would see both of them? Was the second performance a magic show at all? > …since this seems to be losing momentum, should I simply type out the details of that trick from the first performance instead of fielding individual questions about ‘em? I’m not ready to give up yet, but if you mean it as a hint, now is probably the right time for one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2553 "2024-09-24T00:59:49Z")
Again, without a doubt, you’re saying twins are **not** involved. In any way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2554 "2024-09-24T01:16:30Z")
> [@Ana\_Byrd](#): > > Were the two performances intended for the same audience? That is, was it expected that people would see both of them? No. > [@](#): > > Was the second performance a magic show at all? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2555 "2024-09-24T01:23:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Again, without a doubt, you’re saying twins are **not** involved. In any way Correct; no twins (and, no, I’m not building up to a ’gotcha’ reveal that it was triplets, or whatever: no lookalikes who are dead ringers for each other were involved). ---
**Author:** ![Ana\_Byrd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ana\_Byrd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ana_Byrd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2556 "2024-09-24T01:25:49Z")
You have said that there were no fiddly mechanical differences between the two performances, but what about broader differences? Were the two performances intended for entirely different audiences? Say, one for adults and one for children? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2557 "2024-09-24T01:41:02Z")
> [@Ana\_Byrd](#): > > You have said that there were no fiddly mechanical differences between the two performances, but what about broader differences? Were the two performances intended for entirely different audiences? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2558 "2024-09-24T02:54:11Z")
> [@Ana\_Byrd](#): > > I’m not ready to give up yet, but if you mean it as a hint, now is probably the right time for one. Well, take that bit I mentioned about a magician opening an envelope to produce a slip of paper; even if I didn’t see any sleight of hand, and lacked the skill to manage it myself, I could figure that an expert _could’ve_ swapped in a substitute right as he reached in. Or I could figure that it _could’ve_ been a gimmicked envelope, where one of a number of slip-of-paper predictions could be deftly removed as desired. But both of those were ruled out by him keeping well away from the prediction after it went from his hand to the volunteer’s — well _before_ his instruction to her to call out whichever choice came to mind — and, far from him reaching into an envelope that could’ve contained multiple pieces of paper, it was only ever _one_ piece of paper, which was still in her hand (and nowhere near his) when she uncrumpled the singular fact of it and showed its message to the rest of the audience. (Which brings me to ruling out a plant: explaining that he was selecting someone at random, he gave that crumpled ball of paper an over-the-shoulder no-look toss capable of doing just that.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2024, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2559 "2024-09-27T08:37:28Z")
…I can’t tell whether I’m doing this really well or really poorly. What else should I mention? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2024, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/2560 "2024-09-27T11:13:40Z")
I’m really curious about the answer, but have run out of ideas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=127) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=129)