# Lateral Thinking Puzzles - third time is best! **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214 "2023-07-18T13:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 166
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3301 "2025-05-31T02:04:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Like, “I’m an idiot, so what does that say about you?” Got it. No, after I get their encouragement to continue, I don’t mention them at all (or, again, any category they happen to be in). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3302 "2025-05-31T02:23:42Z")
I’m currently stumped, but I’m just posting here to call dibs on the next puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3303 "2025-05-31T02:25:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In our conversation you’re the second-smartest person, but I’m next to last. I like that — but, like I said, “if anything, the only person I’m insulting with my remark is, arguably, _me.”_ AFAICT, what you’ve written is equivalent to me saying, “so, consider two people, one of whom isn’t as smart as the other. And, well, I’m the smarter one!” I get how the _opposite_ of that could of course be an insult to me, and not to them — but what you wrote seems to pretty clearly just be an insult to them, and not to me. I genuinely don’t see how I could argue that I’m the only one being insulted in your scenario; ‘next to last’ means I’m saying that someone else is _less_ smart. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3304 "2025-05-31T02:36:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > next to last’ means I’m saying that someone else is _less_ smart. Joe says to Mike, “out of us two, I am next to last.” That means that Mike is last, and Joe is first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3305 "2025-05-31T02:40:41Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Joe says to Mike, “out of us two, I am next to last.” > > That means that Mike is last, and Joe is first. Which, AFAICT, would be an insult to someone other than Joe. So if I’m Joe in that scenario, then I’d be insulting someone other than Joe; even putting aside that it happens to be Mike, it’s _someone other than Joe._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3306 "2025-05-31T11:40:27Z")
And, again: I know it might seem like I’m splitting hairs, here, but if I’m “next to last,” then I’m saying that _someone else is last._ I’d arguably be insulting myself, but I’d be insulting someone else (a) too, and, as far as I can tell, (b) more. And, well, that doesn’t seem _interesting._ Of course I could get a laugh from other people, but not the guy in front of me, by saying something insulting about _the guy in front of me_; there’s nothing counterintuitive about that. That’s why I ruled it out before it got suggested: it would’ve been the obvious answer, and — looking back over everything I’ve said that’s drawn an expected laugh — this really is the only thing I can remember doing that’s repeatedly and reliably gotten that response from onlookers, but not the guy being talked at, _without insulting anyone other than me._ That’s the only reason I figured on offering it up for this thread: thinking to myself, _huh, is that the only thing in my experience that fits this bill? I guess that’s mildly interesting, and, so long as weeks have gone by, maybe it’s worth bumping the thread with._ But a remark that boils down to “I’m smarter than someone else” doesn’t seem to qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3307 "2025-05-31T15:27:19Z")
Do we have a final answer yet or not? I want to know really badly as this one has fascinated me. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3308 "2025-05-31T15:32:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, again: I know it might seem like I’m splitting hairs, here, but if I’m “next to last,” then I’m saying that _someone else is last._ I’d arguably be insulting myself, but I’d be insulting someone else (a) too, and, as far as I can tell, (b) more. No. “I’m the second dumbest, out of the two of us” it’s a thing that sounds for a moment like I’m insulting myself, but after a moment’s thought you realize that I’m insulting you, and boasting that I’m the smarter one. The joke lies in that momentary misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3309 "2025-05-31T15:55:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > “I’m the second dumbest, out of the two of us” > > it’s a thing that sounds for a moment like I’m insulting myself, but after a moment’s thought you realize that I’m insulting you, and boasting that I’m the smarter one. > > The joke lies in that momentary misunderstanding But that’s my whole point: it’s _not_ that I’m trying to sound like I’m insulting myself, and then after a moment’s thought you realize that, heh, no, I’m insulting someone else by boasting that I’m smarter than someone else; instead, it’s that I’m trying to sound like I’m insulting myself, and then you realize after a moment’s thought that I’m _not_ boasting that I’m smarter than anyone else. If I were — even if it takes a moment to realize it — then you’re right; I’d be insulting them, by boasting that I’m smarter than someone else. But I make sure to _not do that._ ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3310 "2025-05-31T19:15:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, again: I know it might seem like I’m splitting hairs, here, but if I’m “next to last,” then I’m saying that _someone else is last._ I’d arguably be insulting myself, but I’d be insulting someone else (a) too, and, as far as I can tell, (b) more. Hence what I thought was the lateralness of the joke. If there is a group of people and I say you are the second-smartest and I’m next to last (like 9th smartest out of 10) I am insulting myself and not you. But that is inverted in a group of 2. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3311 "2025-05-31T19:18:19Z")
Is it a joke that everyone else gets but the receiver (for whatever reason) doesn’t? Does the joke have to do with something specific to that person (name, clothing, age, etc.)? Is this a joke that pretty much any one you do it with would not laugh but observers would? Let’s say an estimated 90% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3312 "2025-05-31T19:39:34Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Hence what I thought was the lateralness of the joke. If there is a group of people and I say you are the second-smartest and I’m next to last (like 9th smartest out of 10) I am insulting myself and not you. I get that, but — at the risk of beating a dead horse — you’re insulting #10 in that setup, regardless of whether #10 happens to be me. And I’m saying: even _that_ would be out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3313 "2025-05-31T19:58:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Is it a joke that everyone else gets but the receiver (for whatever reason) doesn’t? I believe the receiver could explain why it got a laugh just as well as anyone who’d been listening along could. > [@](#): > > Does the joke have to do with something specific to that person (name, clothing, age, etc.)? I don’t think so, no. Certainly not name or clothing or age. > [@](#): > > Is this a joke that pretty much any one you do it with would not laugh but observers would? Let’s say an estimated 90% of the time. Well, look, I’m 0-for-4 with the person I’m talking at, and 4-for-4 with observers; I never expect the person I’m doing it with to laugh (though I grant that it could happen), and I always hope to get a laugh from others. I could tey to figure out what the percentages would be going forward, but all I’ve got to go on is the same info you now have: _the first time was a best-guess roll of the dice, and my impromptu insult-only-myself effort got the hoped-for results, and the whole reason I haven’t varied my delivery since is because it’s kept on getting exactly those results each time so far._ ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2025, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3314 "2025-06-01T01:46:50Z")
Does the joke involve a prop? Do you threaten the person with a punch to the face if they laugh? (j/k unless it’s a yes) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2025, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3315 "2025-06-01T01:53:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Does the joke involve a prop? No props. (And no _if-they-laugh_ threat.) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2025, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3316 "2025-06-01T23:25:22Z")
Does the insulting of your intelligence enter into the joke, like you intentionally tell a really bad dad joke? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3317 "2025-06-02T00:09:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Does the insulting of your intelligence enter into the joke, like you intentionally tell a really bad dad joke? I’m not 100% sure what you have in mind, but I think you’re on the wrong track; I can imagine getting their encouragement to go ahead, and then building up to a laugh by spending the last seven words intentionally presenting myself as goofier or sillier or just plain _dumber_ than I had up to that point — but, well, this isn’t that. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3318 "2025-06-03T23:57:11Z")
Was the thing that the target said that prompted the joke a question that you answered, and a humorous way? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3319 "2025-06-04T00:02:03Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Was the thing that the target said that prompted the joke a question that you answered, and a humorous way? I’m genuinely not sure what you have in mind, here; could you give me a hypothetical exchange that’d fit the bill? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3320 "2025-06-04T00:04:55Z")
(reading my post it should have said “in” a humorous way, not and a humorous way) As a poor example: Target: How do I attach this pipe to the nozzle? You: First you take the pipe and release the flange… Target: Yes … You: then you stick it up your nose! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=165) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=167)