# Lateral Thinking Puzzles - third time is best! **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214 "2023-07-18T13:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 184
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3661 "2025-07-28T03:56:38Z")
reply to Ana\_Byrd: Was the real reason some out-of-universe circumstance? Say, one of the actors leaving the show? Yes and no. The character couple broke up on screen and it is explained in the plot by having Carol suspect Tony of having an affair with “X”. However, we viewers know that the rift in the relationship is really the result of the man painting a portrait of X (plotwise). But from my recent reading about the show years later, I now know that the actual decision for the character couple breakup is a direct result of the painting plotline, but not in any way relating to the fictional story being told. Got that? No one was leaving the show. No one had relevant personal outside-the- story animosities or issues. They just needed the characters to break up and that reason is never part of the story. But it relates to the story. So why did Carol and Tony have to break up? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3662 "2025-07-28T04:06:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Carol thought Tony was seeing someone else, and Carol and Tony broke up, but _not_ because Carol thought Tony was seeing someone else — and someone nearby was painting whoever Carol thought Tony was seeing, which (a) was ‘the given plot reason for the break-up,’ but which (b) wasn’t the real reason. > > Is that accurate? > > So the real reason could be pretty much _anything_ — maybe the actor and actress split up in real life; maybe the ratings had plummeted while the producers got toms of letters from fans who didn’t want those characters together; maybe the writers simply decided it’d be funnier and more interesting to have Tony swear off women and become a priest — just so long as it wasn’t _actually_ due to the Carol-Thought-Tony-Was-Seeing-The-Person-Being-Painted plot, right? That’s the only thing being ruled out? The real reason for the break-up is a direct result of the painting storyline, but not because of the fictional story being told. The reason has nothing to do with the fiction or the future plotlines for the characters. But it was still needed. Why? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3663 "2025-07-28T11:03:51Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > The character couple broke up on screen and it is explained in the plot by having Carol suspect Tony of having an affair with “X”. However, we viewers know that the rift in the relationship is really the result of the man painting a portrait of X (plotwise). But from my recent reading about the show years later, I now know that the actual decision for the character couple breakup is a direct result of the painting plotline, but not in any way relating to the fictional story being told. Got that? You say that, because of something you read years later, you now know the actual reason was “not in any way related to the fictional story being told.” I guess my question is: would someone merely watching the show — with no knowledge of that show beyond what they simply and only see on screen — have been capable of figuring out what you now know? Like, is there some detail that you maybe missed, or brushed off as irrelevant, or whatever, but now you can look back and say, “oh, well, now that I know the truth, it’s an obvious clue; why didn’t I notice that before?” ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3664 "2025-07-28T11:26:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You say that, because of something you read years later, you now know the actual reason was “not in any way related to the fictional story being told.” I guess my question is: would someone merely watching the show — with no knowledge of that show beyond what they simply and only see on screen — have been capable of figuring out what you now know? > > Like, is there some detail that you maybe missed, or brushed off as irrelevant, or whatever, but now you can look back and say, “oh, well, now that I know the truth, it’s an obvious clue; why didn’t I notice that before?” Someone watching the show when it first aired, or indeed watching it for the first time in 2025, might figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3665 "2025-07-28T16:35:17Z")
Was the painting a nude? ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3666 "2025-07-28T16:50:56Z")
You said no one left the show, but was the availability of one of the actors reduced (for whatever reason), so it wouldn’t have been workable to have these characters continue as a couple? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3667 "2025-07-28T16:53:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Was the painting a nude? No. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3668 "2025-07-28T16:54:27Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > You said no one left the show, but was the availability of one of the actors reduced (for whatever reason), so it wouldn’t have been workable to have these characters continue as a couple? No. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3669 "2025-07-28T21:41:01Z")
Is anybody in this puzzle gay or bisexual? If yes – character? Actor? Would it be helpful to know the genre of the show? Comedy? Soap opera? Mystery? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3670 "2025-07-28T22:15:59Z")
reply to Fretful\_Porpentine: Is anybody in this puzzle gay or bisexual? If yes – character? Actor? Do not think so. But not relevant. Would it be helpful to know the genre of the show? Yes Comedy? No Soap opera? Yes Mystery? No ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3671 "2025-07-28T22:26:39Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > But neither of these plot reasons was the real reason for the character relationship break-up. What was? Was the reason related to production issues? Was an actor leaving the show? Had fans written letters requesting the breakup? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3672 "2025-07-28T22:31:34Z")
reply to Mahaloth: Was the reason related to production issues? Yes Was an actor leaving the show? No Had fans written letters requesting the breakup? No ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3673 "2025-07-28T22:32:46Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Was the reason related to production issues? Yes Was it an actor issue? Was the actress pregnant in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3674 "2025-07-28T22:34:34Z")
reply to Mahaloth: Was it an actor issue? No Was the actress pregnant in real life? No ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3675 "2025-07-29T00:36:15Z")
Would it be plausible for this to happen today, with a show set in the present time? If no: could it plausibly happen with a show made today, but _set_ in the 1960s-1970s? Did the show writers initially intend for Carol and Tony to stay together, prior to introducing the painting storyline? Would it help to know more about the character who was being painted? About the actress (it is a “she,” correct?) who played this character? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3676 "2025-07-29T00:43:46Z")
reply to Fretful\_Porpentine: Would it be plausible for this to happen today, with a show set in the present time? If no: could it plausibly happen with a show made today, but _set_ in the 1960s-1970s? No to all, at least I do not see how. Did the show writers initially intend for Carol and Tony to stay together, prior to introducing the painting storyline? Not sure. Probably not. Would it help to know more about the character who was being painted? Yes About the actress (it is a “she,” correct?) who played this character? A “she” and it will not help to know more about the actress outside of her show character. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3677 "2025-07-29T12:25:44Z")
OK, I am still trying to wrap my head around the part where there are two different _plot reasons_ for the breakup, one from the characters’ point of view and the other from the audience’s, quite apart from anything happening outside of the show… You’ve said no one in this story is gay, but did the painting storyline somehow imply that the “real” reason for the breakup was something else that it would be taboo or controversial to discuss openly on TV in this era? Does the audience know something about the woman in the painting that Carol doesn’t? Is she really Tony’s sister / other relative? Does anything / anyone relevant appear in the painting besides the woman? Are twins / lookalikes somehow involved? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3678 "2025-07-29T12:43:32Z")
Was actors leaving the show relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3679 "2025-07-29T12:52:26Z")
Another thought: is censorship relevant in any way? (The specific scenario I’m thinking about: Was there a Hays Code-type rule that you could _depict_ a characte doing X on TV, but it had to have negative consequences within the plot – you couldn’t just show them doing X and living happily ever after? And in the course of the painting plot, Carol or Tony did X?) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/3680 "2025-07-29T13:15:30Z")
reply to Fretful\_Porpentine: OK, I am still trying to wrap my head around the part where there are two different _plot reasons_ for the breakup, one from the characters’ point of view and the other from the audience’s, quite apart from anything happening outside of the show… You’ve said no one in this story is gay, but did the painting storyline somehow imply that the “real” reason for the breakup was something else that it would be taboo or controversial to discuss openly on TV in this era? No Does the audience know something about the woman in the painting that Carol doesn’t? Yes Is she really Tony’s sister / other relative? No Does anything / anyone relevant appear in the painting besides the woman? No Are twins / lookalikes somehow involved? Sort of… but that bit of the plot is mostly irrelevant to solving the puzzle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=183) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214.md?page=185)