# Lateral Thinking Puzzles - third time is best! **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214 "2023-07-18T13:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 222
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4421 "2026-04-18T12:25:44Z")
Do they occur naturally? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4422 "2026-04-18T12:32:48Z")
Yes, they occur naturally. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4423 "2026-04-18T12:54:35Z")
They occur naturally, but you said you toured “a facility where they were produced.” Can we assume, then, that this facility processes or modifies a naturally occurring item in some way? Or does the facility simply package it up as-is and ship it out? Is the Y something that was once part of the X in its naturally occurring form but now isn’t? Or was the Y added by the aforementioned facility? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4424 "2026-04-18T13:03:23Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > They occur naturally, but you said you toured “a facility where they were produced.” Can we assume, then, that this facility processes or modifies a naturally occurring item in some way? > Or does the facility simply package it up as-is and ship it out? It does all of these things. > [@dirtball](#): > > Is the Y something that was once part of the X in its naturally occurring form but now isn’t? > Or was the Y added by the aforementioned facility? Y is normally part of X in its naturally occurring form. It is not added by this facility. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4425 "2026-04-18T14:02:04Z")
Is it seedless grapes? Or something similar? Like a fruit or vegetable that has been bred to remove a particular feature? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4426 "2026-04-18T14:26:24Z")
Is x a flower, and y a scent? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4427 "2026-04-18T14:35:54Z")
Okay, just reviewed and noticed that it isn’t something you’d normally eat. Is it a material that you can make things out of? Wood? Cork? Cotton? A herb or spice? (not something you’d normally eat on its own) A dye? Is it a plant? Animal? Fungus? Bacteria? Protista? Archaea? Or part of, or extracted from, or a byproduct of one of them? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4428 "2026-04-18T14:41:19Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Is it a plant? Animal? Fungus? Bacteria? Protista? Archaea? I was just about to ask the same thing, when your edit popped in. While thinking that only on the Dope would we be exhaustive about the kingdoms. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4429 "2026-04-18T14:56:42Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Is it seedless grapes? > > Or something similar? Like a fruit or vegetable that has been bred to remove a particular feature? No to seedless grapes. Yes to something similar (though not fruit / vegetable). > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Is x a flower, and y a scent? YES! > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Is it a material that you can make things out of? Wood? Cork? Cotton? > > A herb or spice? (not something you’d normally eat on its own) > > A dye? > > Is it a plant? Animal? Fungus? Bacteria? Protista? Archaea? Or part of, or extracted from, or a byproduct of one of them? Yes to plant / plant part, no to the rest of these. About 80% solved at this point, but what’s left is the “why,” which is the lateral part. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4430 "2026-04-18T15:03:01Z")
So we have a flower that used to be known for its scent, but nowadays they’re often lacking in scent, and we have to figure out why. Correct? Is the flower a rose? Is it a hyacinth? Is it a lilac? Does the lack of scent relate to the way in which the flower is pollinated? If so, is pollination by insects relevant? I’m thinking that the flowers used to be primarily pollinated by insects, and they attracted the insects by scent, so there was strong selective pressure on the flowers to have scent, but now, due either to more effective human pollination, a decrease in insect pollination, or both, there isn’t so much pressure, and so the scent is reverting. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4431 "2026-04-18T15:07:57Z")
That was one of two explanations I thought of. The other is that the breeders of the flowers don’t want the scent, because the scent attracts insects, and many of the people who buy flowers are afraid of and/or disgusted by insects. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4432 "2026-04-18T15:15:24Z")
I’m thinking roses (as most of us here are now) and I’m thinking the Netherlands which exports a lot of roses (as well as tulips). I’m also thinking, like so many other plants, they are being selected for appearance and ability to be shipped long distances, and that this selection has taken priority over scent, which results in varieties that look good, last a long time, and are less prone to damage in shipping…but no longer have the distinctive pungent scent. Like so many other plant varieties that have been selected for looks and robustness in shipping at the expense of flavor and other traits. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4433 "2026-04-18T15:53:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So we have a flower that used to be known for its scent, but nowadays they’re often lacking in scent, and we have to figure out why. Correct? Yes. > [@Chronos](#): > > Is the flower a rose? > Is it a hyacinth? > Is it a lilac? Roses. > [@Chronos](#): > > Does the lack of scent relate to the way in which the flower is pollinated? > If so, is pollination by insects relevant? Yes, indeed! > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The other is that the breeders of the flowers don’t want the scent, because the scent attracts insects, and many of the people who buy flowers are afraid of and/or disgusted by insects. YES! I think this is close enough to consider it solved (although the explanation I got wasn’t so much about customers being afraid / disgusted as about the nuisance factor of having to deal with insects in the greenhouses). > [@Sigene](#): > > I’m thinking roses (as most of us here are now) and I’m thinking the Netherlands which exports a lot of roses (as well as tulips). > > I’m also thinking, like so many other plants, they are being selected for appearance and ability to be shipped long distances, and that this selection has taken priority over scent, which results in varieties that look good, last a long time, and are less prone to damage in shipping…but no longer have the distinctive pungent scent. > > Like so many other plant varieties that have been selected for looks and robustness in shipping at the expense of flavor and other traits. Ecuador, and that may also be the case – but as they explained it, the scent would also create an additional practical challenge that they’d have to deal with (see above for the solution), rather than just being something they were choosing not to prioritize. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2026, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4434 "2026-04-18T17:33:40Z")
Whoops. As usual, I don’t have one ready. And I’m really bad at thinking up these things; I tend to come up with things I think might be hard but which get solved in a couple of guesses. So I’ll try to think of something; but anybody who wants to, feel free to step in. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4435 "2026-04-22T20:02:55Z")
I hope this qualifies; I think it’s at least 20-Questions-able. I once knew I’d be asked to answer three questions, and I promptly tried to get the first one _wrong;_ upon being told that I’d gotten it _right,_ I stopped trying to get the remaining ones wrong. (I also didn’t bother trying to get them right; I just shut the hell up.) I’ve never explained my reasoning to the people who were there; if I’d been smarter, I could’ve realized in advance why that approach would make sense, and I would’ve _definitely_ explained it to some of them ahead of time. But, after the fact, I saw no reason to bother. As far as I can tell, whatever answers I gave — or _didn’t_ give — would’ve made no tangible difference to anyone: no money was going to change hands, no time behind bars was at stake; nobody was facing a promotion or demotion at work, or so much as a good or bad grade on a school assignment; and, when I came up with that strategy for answering those questions, I wasn’t out to trick anyone. What explains my peculiar behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4436 "2026-04-22T20:30:43Z")
Was this related to a school setting, a work setting, an entertainment setting (bar, game restaurant etc), or a home setting? Was the questioner a human? adult? Were the questions verbally asked or were they written down? Were you asked the remaining questions and didn’t answer, or were you not even asked those questions? Were the questions related to factual things or opinions? At some point I’ll ask about the nature of the questions. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4437 "2026-04-22T20:51:46Z")
Were these questions something you just didn’t want to deal with? Did you hope a wrong answer would get the questioner to quit bothering you? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4438 "2026-04-22T21:38:37Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Was this related to a school setting, a work setting, an entertainment setting (bar, game restaurant etc), or a home setting? > > Was the questioner a human? adult? > > Were the questions verbally asked or were they written down? Were you asked the remaining questions and didn’t answer, or were you not even asked those questions? > > Were the questions related to factual things or opinions? School setting, human adult questioner, verbally asked, the rest of the questions got asked but I didn’t answer, they were all factual. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4439 "2026-04-22T21:42:24Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > Were these questions something you just didn’t want to deal with? I wanted to deal with the first question. If, as planned, I’d gotten it wrong, I would’ve very much wanted to deal with the next question. > [@](#): > > Did you hope a wrong answer would get the questioner to quit bothering you? I knew they’d still ask the second and third question. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lateral-thinking-puzzles-third-time-is-best/987214/4440 "2026-04-22T21:44:25Z")
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