# Latest McCain Desparation: Obama Wants Reparations for slavery... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767 "2008-10-27T15:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/61 "2008-10-28T13:41:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Next tuesday night is going to be magnificent simply to revel in the agony of the right wing media and the kind of assholes that go to these McKlan rallies. Reeder? Is that you? I think Obama needs to solidify what he meant by that interview in terms much of the American proletariat, er, public can easily understand. This shit freaks people out, even though it’s happening already and has been for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/62 "2008-10-28T14:54:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was orginally enacted by Ford, but then it was reenacted and greatly expanded by Reagan who was a big fan of it and called it "“the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” > > Let’s keep some perspective here. Obama’s plan is to raise taxes by 4% on those making more thn $250K a year and cut taxes on everyone else. This is the plan that John McCain, Fox News and the right wing radio screamers are calling “Marxism.” It’s absurd. Come on Dio. The part that causes people to call Marxism is that much of what you and Obama are calling a tax cut is really cash payments to people. It’s classic redistribution of wealth, which is a tenet of Marxism (not that this alone makes Obama a Marxist). Also, there’s a feeling that this is only what Obama is floating now but the tax increase on the over 250 crowd would be worse once he’s in office (especially with a dem majority). Also, that 4 percent doesn’t include payroll tax increases Obama has proposed. Also, Liberal, I’ll respond to your post when I get home tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/63 "2008-10-28T15:20:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The part that causes people to call Marxism is that much of what you and Obama are calling a tax cut is really cash payments to people. That’s factually incorrect. John McCain, however, would pay off the mortgages of deadbeats, using money taken from people who scrimped and saved to pay their mortgages faithfully. Why is that not “Marxism”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/64 "2008-10-28T15:21:45Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > The part that causes people to call Marxism is that much of what you and Obama are calling a tax cut is really cash payments to people. It’s classic redistribution of wealth, which is a tenet of Marxism (not that this alone makes Obama a Marxist). This “tax cut” that is “cash payments” already exists in our tax system, and has been enthusiastically supported by Republican presidents including Ronald Reagan. This disingenuous, hypocritical attempt to tar Obama with “Marxism” completely ignores the fact that our tax code has been engaging in “classic redistribution of wealth” in exactly the way you complain about since Obama was in grade school. At this point, you’re just making yourself look stupid by acting all upset about it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/65 "2008-10-28T15:21:55Z")
Duh. McCain is a Fascist, not a Communist. Try to keep up, huh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/66 "2008-10-28T15:29:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, there’s a feeling that this is only what Obama is floating now but the tax increase on the over 250 crowd would be worse once he’s in office (especially with a dem majority). Well, shoot! If “there’s a feeling” then I had better change my vote right away! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/67 "2008-10-28T15:39:50Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s factually incorrect. John McCain, however, would pay off the mortgages of deadbeats, using money taken from people who scrimped and saved to pay their mortgages faithfully. Why is that not “Marxism”? Are you saying that it is factually incorrect that Obama’s tax plan would cause or increase cash payments to many Americans in the form of tax refunds because of refundable tax credits? If so, please support that statement. On your second point, it is factually incorrect and disingrnuous to say that McCainaks plan would “pay off” the mortgages of “deadbeats.”. The plan would purchase the mortgage from the current lender and then renegotiate it, so the homeowner would still make (lower) payments. The plan would only purchase mortgages where a creditworthy borrower originally made a downpayment. (Also, as I’ve said before, I don’t like the plan, but let’s get the facts straight.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/68 "2008-10-28T15:48:44Z")
The McCain plan would buy overpriced mortgages at face value then renegotiate them down, and the taxpayer eats the difference. It amounts to subsidizing mortgages for deadbeat homeowners. And if the owners were “creditworthy,” they wouldn’t be in default. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/69 "2008-10-28T15:49:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This “tax cut” that is “cash payments” already exists in our tax system, and has been enthusiastically supported by Republican presidents including Ronald Reagan. > > This disingenuous, hypocritical attempt to tar Obama with “Marxism” completely ignores the fact that our tax code has been engaging in “classic redistribution of wealth” in exactly the way you complain about since Obama was in grade school. At this point, you’re just making yourself look stupid by acting all upset about it. Kimstu, we’ve been over this before. The EITC is a redistribution of wealth, which I don’t like. I understand that it has been around a long time. Obama would increase the EITC and add new tax credits, which INCREASES the redistribution. Because I dob’t like redistribution in the first place, I certainly don’t like a policy that would cause it to increase. Just because there is redistribution now doesnlt mean it is illegitimate or hypocritical or disingenuous to not favor an increase in it. You can (and apparently do) disagree with this position, but it is perfectly legitimate and not disingenuous or hypocritical in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/70 "2008-10-28T15:50:55Z")
Reagan ALSO “increased the redistribution.” Was Reagan a socialist, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/71 "2008-10-28T15:56:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The McCain plan would buy overpriced mortgages at face value then renegotiate them down, and the taxpayer eats the difference. It amounts to subsidizing mortgages for deadbeat homeowners. > > And if the owners were “creditworthy,” they wouldn’t be in default. On the first part, I of course agree with you. Liberal said the mortgages would be paid off, which is not factually accurate. On the second part, creditworthy borrowers absolutely can and do default on loans. But I’m not interested in pursuing this tangent, I just wanted to point out Liberal’s inaccuracies. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/72 "2008-10-28T16:03:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Reagan ALSO “increased the redistribution.” Was Reagan a socialist, yes or no? I never called Obama a socialist or Marxist, I just said that his tax plan has features that are in line with tenets of Marxism. And Reagan’s increase in the EITC was also in line with tenets of Marxism. If there were an SDMB then, I would have started a thread on it (not really because I was a kid then but you get my drift). ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/73 "2008-10-28T16:07:11Z")
**Rand Rover** , do you support the federal income tax? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/74 "2008-10-28T16:10:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Kimstu, we’ve been over this before. The EITC is a redistribution of wealth, which I don’t like. I understand that it has been around a long time. Obama would increase the EITC and add new tax credits, which INCREASES the redistribution. Because I dob’t like redistribution in the first place, I certainly don’t like a policy that would cause it to increase. Just because there is redistribution now doesnlt mean it is illegitimate or hypocritical or disingenuous to not favor an increase in it. You can (and apparently do) disagree with this position, but it is perfectly legitimate and not disingenuous or hypocritical in any way. But you like John McCain’s brand new tax on health benefits? Sorry, but there’s no way you can ingenuously argue that one of them is a Marxist while the other is not. Why not argue that McCain is a card carrying socialist since he has a Medicare card? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/75 "2008-10-28T16:13:34Z")
McCain has a _platinum_ Medicare card. Totally different, entirely capitalist. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/76 "2008-10-28T16:16:44Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > **Rand Rover** , do you support the federal income tax? Yes. Given that I chose to think about the US FIT every day for a living, I’d say I rather like it and support it a lot. I also think progressive marginal rates are fine in principle. I also think that provision of job training and food stamps and other targeted services to the poor are fine in principle. What I don’t like is an increase in tax on the wealthy for the purpose of funding cash payments to the not-so-wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/77 "2008-10-28T16:18:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But you like John McCain’s brand new tax on health benefits? Sorry, but there’s no way you can ingenuously argue that one of them is a Marxist while the other is not. Why not argue that McCain is a card carrying socialist since he has a Medicare card? Not only that, but Reagan was once a union boss. As far as I know, he never resigned his membership either. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/78 "2008-10-28T16:23:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What I don’t like is an increase in tax on the wealthy for the purpose of funding cash payments to the not-so-wealthy. Then — again — why does that mean you support McCain over Obama? Have you actually looked at McCain’s proposals? And why the single issue? Let’s say that McCain was a purist libertarian and eliminated the IRS. Do you honestly believe he has the calm temperament and deliberative judgment to lead America into a 21st century world? He won’t be able to tell the world “Stop! I want to get off!” when a crisis occurs. He won’t be able to suspend his presidency and go hide in a hole. He won’t be able to shuffle around on a stage and spew insults while the world moves on without him. Use your fucking head, man. Think. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/79 "2008-10-28T16:24:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But you like John McCain’s brand new tax on health benefits? Sorry, but there’s no way you can ingenuously argue that one of them is a Marxist while the other is not. Why not argue that McCain is a card carrying socialist since he has a Medicare card? Well then I guess it’s a good thing I never argued that Obama is a Marxist, then, right? Also, Liberal, it’s very odd that in this thread you keep accusing me of being factually inaccurate and disingenuous while yourself being factually inaccurate and perhaps disingenuous in every post. In this one, you didn’t mention the tax credit part of McCain’s health plan. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767/80 "2008-10-28T16:30:24Z")
Given that consumption is headed straight for the toilet it would seem giving cheques to poor people would be rather beneficial at the moment. Or do you think there’s actually a supply problem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-mccain-desparation-obama-wants-reparations-for-slavery/469767.md?page=5)