# Latest Obama Scandal: Can he Survive This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048 "2008-04-12T16:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/181 "2008-04-15T14:42:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Great. So he is a protectionist after all. [/quote] Nothing like putting a cartoon label on a complex position. There’s a lot going on in these trade agreements. One significant part of them has been to make the other parties in the deal adopt U.S. intellectual property standards. Hell, we haven’t had much debate in _this_ country about whether the changes in IP law in the past 20 years or so have been a good idea, and here the same people who snuck those changes through Congress are trying to force them on our trading partners, too. And that’s just one (uncovered, undebated) issue with respect to a trade deal like the one proposed with Colombia. I’m for anyone who says, for whatever reason, that it’s time to slow down and take a look at what’s really going on with these trade deals. Instead, all we get in our media is cartoonish discussion: Free Trade Good. Opposing Free Trade Deals Bad. Protectionism. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/182 "2008-04-15T15:25:20Z")
**Sam Stone** , do you withdraw the claim that he’s arguing that certain beliefs are the result of bitterness? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/183 "2008-04-15T15:26:34Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Nothing like putting a cartoon label on a complex position. [/QUOTE] I agree. I’m not on board with Obama on this trade issue, but calling it simply “protectionist” is not helpful in the debate. No trade deal we enter into comes without conditions, and we’re just debating what those conditions should be. If we’re going to sling that term around casually like that, then all the candidates are “protectionists”-- except maybe Ron Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/184 "2008-04-15T16:10:51Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] I was just trying to show that the people on this thread who thought it was no big deal didn’t see why it was offensive because they have the same biases as Obama. In order to try to get people to think about why it’s potentially insulting, I suggested trying to think of someone referring to an issue you’re passionate about - for philosophical reasons that are important to you - and linking them to being some racist yokel, to imply that you only worry about that stuff because you’re too dumb to know what’s best for you. [/QUOTE] Sorry, Sr., but you’re incorrect. I don’t think anyone here doesn’t think it was a big deal. It was a big deal because it was MADE INTO a big deal when it shouldn’t have been. And trying to draw a parallel by finding an issue the other side is passionate about “and linking them to being some racist yokel to imply that [we] only worry about that stuff because [we’re] too dumb to know what’s best for [us]” doesn’t work precisely because that’s not even **remotely** what Barack Obama said or implied. That is _your_ interpretation (and a wild one at best) based on _your_ biases. Our biases don’t prevent us from being able to see that his remarks were controversial and that his choice of words was unfortunate. But twisting those words into something they clearly are not, is absolutely evidence of bias. [QUOTE=John Mace] I’m not on board with Obama on this trade issue. . . No trade deal we enter into comes without conditions, and we’re just debating what those conditions should be. [/QUOTE] Given that Barack Obama isn’t opposed to trade, but simply wants any trade deal to be fair and _enforced_ (which our current administration isn’t doing), it seems to me that your two sentences above are contradictory. Did you read all of **BrainGlutton’s** linked article? [QUOTE=RTFirefly] Maybe the fact that [the polls didn’t move](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9691057&postcount=116) as a result of this will reduce the perceived value of trivia like this. [/QUOTE] This is going to backfire on Hillary big time, especially with the superdelegates and party officials who see her – once again – siding with her Republican opponent over her fellow Democrat. > [@](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/15/ST2008041500049.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/15/ST2008041500049.html) > > . . . > > Looking for any possible edge, the Clinton campaign has pressed uncommitted superdelegates to view Obama’s remarks as a major debacle that could harm him in November. But as of yesterday evening, there was little evidence that the electability argument is resonating. > > Rep. Mike Doyle (D), an undecided superdelegate who represents Pittsburgh and surrounding towns in the Monongahela Valley, said yesterday that he was not particularly troubled by Obama’s comments. > > “I don’t disagree with a lot of what he said. My dad was a mill worker. My grandfather was a steel mill worker, and when the steel industry collapsed, nobody’s family was hurt more than mine,” Doyle said. “It’s not inaccurate to say a lot of politicians have come through these towns, made a lot of promises and failed to deliver. I thought he was spot-on when he said how people feel.” > > He added that Obama’s unexpected endorsement yesterday by Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney “carries a hell of a lot more weight” than the blowup over his comments about small-town residents. > > Rep. David E. Price, an uncommitted Democrat from North Carolina, which holds its primary May 6, said his frustrations are with Clinton, for the potential damage she has inflicted. > > “Senator Obama could have chosen better words, but it seems to me that he’s stating the obvious,” Price said. “People are feeling a great deal of economic stress, anxiety, and there is a certain amount of anger out there. . . . I think it’s most unfortunate that opponents simply pounce, particularly opponents in his own party.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/185 "2008-04-15T16:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Great. So he is a protectionist after all. [/QUOTE] His stated position – did you even read it? – is actually much more nuanced than that: > [@Barack Obama](#): > > Not every job that has left is coming back. And not every job lost is due to trade –automation has made plants more efficient so they can make the same amount of steel with few workers. These are the realities. > > I also don’t oppose all trade deals. I voted for two of them because they have the worker and environmental agreements I believe in. Some of you disagreed with me on this but I did what I thought was right. > > That’s the truth. But let me tell you what else I believe in: > > For America to win, American workers have to win, too. If CEO pay keeps rising, while the standard of living for their workers continues to decline, that’s not a win for America. > > That’s why I opposed NAFTA, it’s why I opposed CAFTA, and it’s why I said any trade agreement I would support had to contain real, enforceable standards for workers. > > That’s why I believe the Permanent Normalized Trade agreement with China didn’t do enough to ensure fairness and compliance. > > Now, you can have a debate about whether my position is right or wrong. But here’s what you can’t do. You can’t spend the better part of two decades campaigning for NAFTA and PNTR for China, and then come here to Pennsylvania, and tell the steelworkers you’ve been with them all along. You can’t say you are opposed to the Columbia Trade deal, while your key strategist is working for the Columbian government to get the deal passed. > > That’s not respect. That’s just more of the same old Washington politics. And we can’t afford more of the same. > > We need real change, and that’s what I’m offering. I’m offering a new, more transparent and more inclusive path on trade so we can help promote an integrated global economy where the costs and benefits are distributed more equitably. And it starts with a principle I’ve always believed in – that trade should work for all Americans. > > That’s why we need to finally confront the issue of trade with China. As I’ve said before, America and the world can benefit from trade with China. But trade with China will only be good for you if China itself plays by the rules and acts as a positive force for balanced world growth. > > Seeing the living standards of the Chinese people improve is a good thing – good because we want a stable China, and good because China can be a powerful market for American exports. But too often, China has been competing in ways that are tilting the playing field. > > It’s not just that China is following the path taken by so many other countries before it, and dumping goods into our market while not opening their own markets, something I’ve spoken out against. It’s not just that they’re violating intellectual property rights. They’re also grossly undervaluing their currency, and giving their goods yet another unfair advantage. Each year they’ve had the chance, the Bush administration has failed to do anything about this. That’s unacceptable. That’s why I co-sponsored the Currency Exchange Rate Oversight Reform Act. And that’s why as President, I’ll use all the diplomatic avenues open to me to insist that China stop manipulating its currency. > > We also have to make sure that whatever goods we’re importing are safe for our families. We all saw the harm that was caused by lead toys from China that were reaching our store shelves. A few months ago, when I called for a ban on any toys that have more than a trace amount of lead, an official at China’s foreign ministry said I was being “unobjective, unreasonable, and unfair.” But I don’t think protecting our children is “unreasonable” – I think it’s our obligation as parents and as Americans. > > When it comes to trade, there’s no one-size-fits-all approach. If countries are committed to reciprocity, if they are abiding by basic rules of the road, then we should welcome trade. Many poor countries need access to our markets and pose no threat to our workers. > > But what all trade agreements I negotiate as President will have in common is that they’ll all put American workers first. We won’t ignore violence against union organizers in Columbia, or the non-tariff barriers that keep U.S. cars out of South Korea. > > And we won’t just negotiate fair trade agreements, we’ll make sure they’re being fully enforced. George Bush has been far too slow to press American rights. That’s an outrage. When our trading partners sign an agreement with the Obama administration, you can trust that we’ll hold them to it. If you want to express disagreement with the above, please be specific. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/186 "2008-04-15T16:46:52Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Given that Barack Obama isn’t opposed to trade, but simply wants any trade deal to be fair and _enforced_ (which our current administration isn’t doing), it seems to me that your two sentences above are contradictory. Did you read all of **BrainGlutton’s** linked article? [/QUOTE] I disagree with his definition of “fair”, so I’m not talking about enforcement-- of course the terms of any treaty should be enforced. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/187 "2008-04-15T16:56:49Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] I don’t watch TV cable news anymore, how is this issue being covered there? Is the “bitter” part the biggest deal about all of it? Getting in a huff over that seems odd to me. Of course they’re bitter. A people getting fucked by their government should be bitter. Is it somehow a personal insult to their character to call them bitter? It’s strange to me, if that’s the case, that the controversy is over that minor issue instead of the rest of the stuff, which may or may not be indicative of much more. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately this has been the character of Hillary’s entire strategy. It’s just a continuation of Mark Penn. Her campaign org sucks, this is all they’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/188 "2008-04-15T17:33:08Z")
I just gotta say, as a rural Pennsylvanian (My parents run the general store in a dead coaltown in west-central PA), most of the people I’ve talked to understood what Obama meant just fine–bitterness about economics makes people ignore it and fight harder for non-sequitor issues like gun rights and religion. And there’s a LOT of bitterness–hell, the brick factory in the next town over STILL gets spraypainted with “Thanks, NAFTA!” on a regular basis even going on five years after it re-opened (at half capacity, though). I say this as a semi-rural (town of 100k+ but five minutes drive to farmland), gun-owning, theistic, conservative Democrat–the people Obama is upsetting with that remark aren’t the people who’d vote for him anyway, from where I sit and from who I talk to. Sure, my parents are going to single-issue vote on abortion–but they’re damn sure that McCain leaves a sour taste in their mouths more than Obama does, and I might convince them yet. The only reason I haven’t is because they have no faith that Obama or any other politician is actually going to be anything other than more of the same on economics–if Obama gets elected, and proves he’s got the chops to work with Congress to get a more progressive (sorry, Sr. =P) economic plan and trade agreements pass, I predict a MASSIVE shift of the rural working class to Democrat again–especially if he stays sane but fair on national gun regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/189 "2008-04-15T17:52:31Z")
[QUOTE=Zeriel] I say this as a semi-rural (town of 100k+ but five minutes drive to farmland), gun-owning, theistic, conservative Democrat–the people Obama is upsetting with that remark aren’t the people who’d vote for him anyway, from where I sit and from who I talk to. Sure, my parents are going to single-issue vote on abortion–but they’re damn sure that McCain leaves a sour taste in their mouths more than Obama does, and I might convince them yet. The only reason I haven’t is because they have no faith that Obama or any other politician is actually going to be anything other than more of the same on economics–if Obama gets elected, and proves he’s got the chops to work with Congress to get a more progressive (sorry, Sr. =P) economic plan and trade agreements pass, I predict a MASSIVE shift of the rural working class to Democrat again–especially if he stays sane but fair on national gun regulations. [/QUOTE] Thanks for weighing in, **Zeriel**. I know you said your folks will have to be convinced on economic issues, but since abortion seems to be the issue that’s put them squarely in McCain’s camp for now, perhaps you could have them read Barack’s [Call to Renewal](http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php) keynote address. They might disagree with him, but like what he has to say none-the-less. ETA: They also might like what he had to say in [his remarks to the Building Trades Legislative Conference](http://thepage.time.com/full-text-of-obamas-remarks-to-the-building-trades-legislative-conference/) today. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/190 "2008-04-15T18:11:59Z")
Looks like voters [aren’t as knee-jerk hyper-sensitive](http://www.mediacurves.com/press_releases/PressRelease.cfm?PressReleaseID=136) as Clinton/McCain would want to believe: > [@](#): > > Do you think Barack Obama’s comments were elitist or out of touch, as his critics have claimed? > > PRE VIEWING OF VIDEO > …Yes…No…Not Sure > Democrats…32%…41%…27% > Republicans…57%…20%…23% > Independents…27%…40%…33% > > POST VIEWING OF VIDEO > …Yes…No…Not Sure > Democrats…26%…62%…13% > Republicans…47%…41%…11% > Independents…29%…58%…13% > > Do you agree with Senator Obama’s comments regarding working class voters in states like Pennsylvania? > > POST VIEWING OF VIDEO > …Yes…No…Not Sure > Democrats…64%…22%…14% > Republicans…38%…46%…16% > Independents…56%…29%…15% ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/191 "2008-04-15T18:16:10Z")
So, as long as every voter sees that video… ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/192 "2008-04-15T18:25:04Z")
When\*\* Zeriel\*\* weighed in, it caused me to realize that a lot of people have been doing exactly what some have “accused” Obama of doing: that Mr. Obama appears to think he can intuit/understand/express what these Pennsylvia voters think and feel - and why. But those who appear to be angry about it are also speaking “for” the Pennsylvanians and choosing to be insulted on their behalf. Then **Zeriel** steps up. I know he’s only one person, but he’s one of the people that Mr. Obama supposedly condescended to, one of the people who supposedly thinks Mr. Obama is an elitist interloper who belittled and patronized them. Maybe there are lots more just like him. The next weeks will be interesting. The polls I’ve seen do not have Ms. Clinton leaping ahead. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/193 "2008-04-15T18:25:45Z")
Can someone explain Obama’s [re-interpretation of the “cling” comment?](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/12/obama_concedes_he_misspoke.html?hpid=topnews) He now says he meant they cling in a good way to important traditions: > [@](#): > > As Obama acknowledged this morning, his mistake was to suggest that many small-town values are formed by cynicism. “You know the truth. It is that these > traditions that are passed on from generation to generation, those are important. That’s what sustains us,” he told the Muncie audience. > > But he added, “what is absolutely true is that people don’t feel like they are being listened to. And so they pray and they count on each other and they count > on their families. You know this in your own lives and what we need is a government that is actually paying attention. Government that is fighting for working people day in and day out making sure that we are trying to allow them to live out the American dream.” What about the part where they “cling” to anti–immigrant or anti-trade issues. Are those important traditions that sustain us in bad times? ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/194 "2008-04-15T18:33:32Z")
That’s the problem, isn’t it? The equation of religion and guns to anti-immigrant and trade. I don’t choose to believe that Obama was trying to express a value equivalence among the several things he mentioned- he’s clearly a man who feels strongly about his religion for instance, and it’s hard for me to see him equating religion to “antipathy to those who are not like us”. In fact for me it’s the (to me, clearly unintended) equivalence that allows him off the hook on this statement. He muffed it, but I don’t think it’s indicative of some sneaky sub-rasa elitism because the religious, at any rate, are clearly his people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/195 "2008-04-15T18:37:29Z")
Frankly, I do detect an elitist attitude in the remark. But, as was noted earlier, this should come as no surprise since he is part of the elite-- just like Hillary and McCain are. They are all going to slip up once in awhile a make comments that reveal that elitist outlook. I’m not going to hold this against Obama, but I’m not going to pretend like it was “speaking truth to power” or something like that. Bush is an elitist. Cheney is an elitist. Gore is an elitist. Kerry is an elitist. Bush Sr is an elitist. The list goes on… ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/196 "2008-04-15T19:14:32Z")
I’ll go along with that. I realize that I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt here, but I really believe that he rather does care about why people vote against what he believes is their own economic benefit- like a puzzle he wants to solve- as opposed to a cudgel that he can use to amass political power. It’s a key distinction for me, as long as we’re reading the Obama tea leaves. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/197 "2008-04-15T20:07:03Z")
I’m at the point where I’m almost hoping that he comes out in some way that can be construed as guardedly pro-life, just because I know exactly what that’ll do to his numbers in my neck of the woods. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/198 "2008-04-15T20:16:51Z")
[QUOTE=Zeriel] I’m at the point where I’m almost hoping that he comes out in some way that can be construed as guardedly pro-life, just because I know exactly what that’ll do to his numbers in my neck of the woods. [/QUOTE] Will the idea that he’s personally opposed to abortion give him cover for also realizing that his personal feelings about it don’t make it legal or moral for him to try to enshrine a fetus’s right-to-life into law? Because there is an awful lot of misunderstanding on the pro-life side that all pro-choice people are actually pro-abortion, and that’s just not true. I don’t really know anyone of note in the pro-choice ranks who actually promotes abortion. A lot of us consider it an unfortunate necessity that it remain legal, but a necessity nonetheless. Meanwhile, we work to make the necessity of an abortion less common by promoting sex education and easier access to birth control. But, again, that’s not a soundbite. It’s too nuanced. That’s the problem with modern politics…if you actually try to explain your position, you’ve already overspoken the time the public and the media are going to give you. Politics seems to favor those who speak as broadly and as fuzzily as possible. That’s what makes Obama’s success so far kind of amazing… And yes, the abortion thing is always a problem for national Democrats in Pennsylvania, home of the Caseys and their fellow pro-life Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/199 "2008-04-15T20:24:45Z")
Amen, brother. I don’t even know what it says about me that I know a lot of people, including but not limited to “pretty much my entire hometown”, who vote straight D locally but R for national elections based solely on the pro-life status of the candidates in question. Hell, my staunchly (so he says) pro-life dad said the exact same thing you did when we were talking politics this weekend over a beer. “We need more good sex education so we don’t have as many dumb kids getting pregnant, then we’d have fewer abortions anyway. I mean, I’m Catholic and all, but holding a no-birth-control position in this day and age is just plain dumb.” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/200 "2008-04-15T20:46:07Z")
If you’d like to know exactly what Obama has said on this topic, [look here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o-jNECOtKQ) at his discussion a couple of days ago in the “Compassion Forum” at Messiah College. You should also take a look at the video clip concerning torture, and the one about science versus faith. Heck, watch 'em all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=11)