# Latest Obama Scandal: Can he Survive This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048 "2008-04-12T16:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/41 "2008-04-12T20:40:34Z")
The “bitter” remarks may be true, and may be an accurate representation of the candidate’s feelings, but they are indeed impolitic- and Obama showed that in the way that he changed the statement subtly when he reiterated it. Made it about “voting on guns” instead of “clinging to guns”. There is a difference. The latter sounds genuinely dismissive and elitist, the former sounds like a guy who might be open to talking to people who have been embittered. I am interested in the response they have made- and I am getting what I asked for during Kerry’s run- the Obama campaign seems set on taking the offensive in issues like this. We’ll see how it works. This could fester- but the conversation it opens up is not a good one for the right, either. What have they done for the single-issue folks when they’re actually in office? Who is really the manipulative, dismissive elitist here? I am going to go have some OJ. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/42 "2008-04-12T20:44:09Z")
This may actually be the most difficult to shake of Obama’s problems. Appealing to white working class voters may be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/43 "2008-04-12T20:44:20Z")
It probably means…ah…he’s a Muslim? 'cause they don’t drink caffeine…ergo…he’s the EBIL!!! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/44 "2008-04-12T21:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Hard habit to break, huh? [/QUOTE] Hard for you to break the habit of insulting your opponents in Great Debates, huh? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/45 "2008-04-12T21:40:09Z")
**Shayna** y’know I’m in your corner most of the time here, but your skin is being a bit thin right now. **Elvis** ’s dig was mild enough to hardly count as a dig. Power down photon torpedos. 🙂 Meanwhile I think that this “bitter” bit may really hurt him. Sure it may be true but you do not go around talking about how the voters you are acourtin’ are bitter and how they cling to guns and religion because of that. Not and get their votes too well. Associating with scary Black preachers may not get him. But being pegged an arrogant intellectual could. Especailly as he tries to reach out to the working class crowd that wants their leadership smart but hates to realize that their leaders are smarter than they are. _That_ was Bill’s great gift: he was as much a wonk as anyone but when he talked he made Joe Q. Pubic _think_ that they knew that all along themselves … Bill had just said it better, that’s all. Never let the public catch you talking down to them or about them. This’ll hurt. Oh, not so bad as to resurrect the dead. But the hope he had to get PA below a 5% loss just went poof. She may win PA by more than 15% now. Which will keep the plug from being pulled a bit longer. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/46 "2008-04-12T21:41:21Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] It probably means…ah…he’s a Muslim? 'cause they don’t drink caffeine…ergo…he’s the EBIL!!! [/QUOTE] Actually, I see this as an attempt by Obama to counteract the “Muslim” accusations. Muslims actually _love_ coffee. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The English word coffee first came to be used in the early- to mid-1600s, but early forms of the word date to the last decade of the 1500s.[8] It comes from the Italian caffè. The term was introduced to Europe via the Ottoman Turkish kahveh which is in turn derived from the Arabic: قهوة‎, qahweh.[9][10] The origin of the Arabic term is uncertain; it is either derived from the name of the Kaffa region in western Ethiopia, where coffee was cultivated, or by a truncation of qahwat al-būnn, meaning “wine of the bean” in Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/47 "2008-04-12T21:46:12Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] This may actually be the most difficult to shake of Obama’s problems. Appealing to white working class voters may be difficult. [/QUOTE] Yeah, maybe. It depends on whether voters hear the remarks in context. The first I heard of it was a short blurb on the NPR site. Obama says the working class “clings to guns and religion” because “nobody listens to them”. I’m going WTF? Then I read another site that says Obama was talking about the working class **focusing on single issues** , like gun control, school prayer, etc. That puts a whole different light on it, and it’s important for him to make that clear. But there’s truth in what he said. When we feel like can’t fix the big, national problems, we focus our energy on the local ones, where we’re more likely to have some effect. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/48 "2008-04-12T21:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] Actually, I see this as an attempt by Obama to counteract the “Muslim” accusations. Muslims actually _love_ coffee. [/QUOTE] Aha! Overcompensation! …no? Yeah. I got nothing. Like him or hate him, I mean, come on, some people just like their juice. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/49 "2008-04-12T21:54:00Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **Shayna** y’know I’m in your corner most of the time here, but your skin is being a bit thin right now. **Elvis** ’s dig was mild enough to hardly count as a dig. Power down photon torpedos. 🙂 [/quote] It was a rude remark following an apology, and an insult whether you think it was mild or not. And as such, it has no place in GD, and I’m bloody well sick of it. > [@DSeid](#): > > Meanwhile I think that this “bitter” bit may really hurt him. Sure it may be true but you do not go around talking about how the voters you are acourtin’ are bitter and how they cling to guns and religion because of that. Not and get their votes too well. Associating with scary Black preachers may not get him. But being pegged an arrogant intellectual could. Especailly as he tries to reach out to the working class crowd that wants their leadership smart but hates to realize that their leaders are smarter than they are. _That_ was Bill’s great gift: he was as much a wonk as anyone but when he talked he made Joe Q. Pubic _think_ that they knew that all along themselves … Bill had just said it better, that’s all. Never let the public catch you talking down to them or about them. > > This’ll hurt. Oh, not so bad as to resurrect the dead. But the hope he had to get PA below a 5% loss just went poof. She may win PA by more than 15% now. Which will keep the plug from being pulled a bit longer. Quit buying into the spin. This is ridiculous nonsense. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together ought to be laughing their asses off at the notion that the 2 multi-millionaires (to the tune of over a hundred million, not just a couple) are calling the guy who only just paid off his student loans 2 years ago, “elite” and “out of touch” with working people. It’s fucking retarded and it won’t hurt him among anyone who was open to voting for him in the first place. Not only that, he’s _right_, and the average working person knows that. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/50 "2008-04-12T22:11:34Z")
When the phone call comes at 3 a.m., don’t you want someone in the White House who’s capable of drinking a strong cup of coffee? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/51 "2008-04-12T22:15:01Z")
Clearly he’s making outreaches to rural Florida voters. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/52 "2008-04-12T22:31:07Z")
Maybe coffee is too bitter… ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/53 "2008-04-12T22:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Hard for you to break the habit of insulting your opponents in Great Debates, huh? [/QUOTE] Give him some credit, Shayna, he hasn’t yawned a single time yet! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/54 "2008-04-12T22:41:01Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] Yeah, maybe. It depends on whether voters hear the remarks in context. The first I heard of it was a short blurb on the NPR site. Obama says the working class “clings to guns and religion” because “nobody listens to them”. I’m going WTF? Then I read another site that says Obama was talking about the working class **focusing on single issues** , like gun control, school prayer, etc. That puts a whole different light on it, and it’s important for him to make that clear. But there’s truth in what he said. When we feel like can’t fix the big, national problems, we focus our energy on the local ones, where we’re more likely to have some effect. [/QUOTE] Yes, but the news on the right wing blogosphere is that he hates his Grandmother and the Working Class. They’re going to flog that meme long after the left here on the Dope have forgotten about it. I know people on message boards who still talk about him hating his Grandma. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/55 "2008-04-12T22:57:34Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Clearly he’s making outreaches to rural Florida voters. They don’t count, remember? [QUOTE=rikc] Give him some credit, Shayna, he hasn’t yawned a single time yet! [/QUOTE] Right, _I’m_ not too tired to _read the OP_ before replying to it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/56 "2008-04-12T23:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] … Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together ought to be laughing their asses off at the notion that the 2 multi-millionaires (to the tune of over a hundred million, not just a couple) are calling the guy who only just paid off his student loans 2 years ago, “elite” and “out of touch” with working people. It’s fucking retarded … [/QUOTE] Being lambasted an arrogant intellectual has nothing to do with the money. GWBush is rich but no one would ever believe that he is talking down to them. Quite the opposite. Warren Buffet is among the wealthiest on the planet and yet comes across as a down to earth well grounded guy with no arrogance at all. Yet I’ve met more than a few lower middle class university professors who had plenty of intellectual arrogance to spare. Yes, they tend to be the bookcases, not the scholars, but arrogance (unfounded) they got. Many in the working class dream of being wealthy one day. Few dream of being professors. They can identify with a wealthy person who is down to earth; they won’t with an intellectual who they believe thinks they are better than they are. Mind you I hope that you are right, but I suspect that you are not. Again, this won’t save Hilary, too late for that, but he can only hope that something else blasts it out of the news cycle soon. He has got to connect with the less well educated White working stiff to be the transformational figure he aspires to be. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/57 "2008-04-12T23:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Mind you I hope that you are right, but I suspect that you are not. Again, this won’t save Hilary, too late for that, but he can only hope that something else blasts it out of the news cycle soon. He has got to connect with the less well educated White working stiff to be the transformational figure he aspires to be. [/QUOTE] So far isn’t he leveraging his point to the effect of connecting BETTER with the disaffected across the nation? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/58 "2008-04-13T00:02:39Z")
Anything to let the MSM portray Obama as the “Other”, I guess. They can’t come out and call him an uppity…but by gum they’re going to fill in every space around those words, leaving a hole in that exact shape for the public to fill in on their own. This whole election is disgusting to watch. Edited to add: say, how’s the dollar doing, folks? New Orleans? Afghanistan? Iraq? But never mind that, _Barack Obama can’t bowl_, _Barack Obama doesn’t like coffee_, OMG OHNOES! ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/59 "2008-04-13T00:03:37Z")
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading] So far isn’t he leveraging his point to the effect of connecting BETTER with the disaffected across the nation? [/QUOTE] Yes, I mean what did we expect would happen with a 6 week lag between battles. A smooch fest? The media-mongering, blogoshpere-blathering, jump-on-every-syllable voracious folks need _ **SOME** _ fodder right? Might as well be this, I’m sure Clinton will be up next for saying she was secretly recording Monica Lewinski’s indiscretions in the blue dress…not enough rolleyes for this crap. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/60 "2008-04-13T00:37:07Z")
FWIW… Chris Matthews’ mug is on the front cover of this week’s NY Times Sunday Magazine, and the feature article trashes him. If you dislike Chris, you’ll love the bashing he gets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=4)