# Latest Obama Scandal: Can he Survive This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048 "2008-04-12T16:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/61 "2008-04-13T17:25:49Z")
If you check out today’s _Washington Post_, the “bitter” thing is actually getting a ludicrous amount of coverage. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/62 "2008-04-13T17:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Obviously only a communist homosexual would choose orange juice to the exclusion of coffee. We all know that, it’s not up for debate. What I am questioning is the wisdom of Barack HUSSEIN Obama flaunting his homosexuality and communism to the American people. Do we really want a president with that kind of judgment? [/QUOTE] In other news, the Communist Fags of America Association (CFAA) and Florida Citrus Growers (FCG) have officially endorsed Obama today. Colombian officials could not be reached for comments. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/63 "2008-04-13T17:31:13Z")
What I HOPE for is that people are going to look at this whole thing and say, “Hell, yeah, I’m bitter! I’m working at Burger King for minimum wage because my 20 years at the plant doesn’t mean a thing when they close it down because people in China will do the same thing for 1/5 of the wages. I’m going to lose my home because of predatory lending. My kids are going to a substandard school because of No Child Left Behind. My Republican state senator is more interested in punishing pregnant teens than he is in helping his constituents. And Clinton is telling me that I’m not REALLY bitter?! Who does she think she is?” I don’t, unfortunately, expect that to happen, but I really, really WANT it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/64 "2008-04-13T17:39:46Z")
I agree with **BrainGlutton** in post 36. Obama was boycotting Venezuela (and Colombia) and was courting Florida. _Quelle scandale!_ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/65 "2008-04-13T18:03:01Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] What I HOPE for is that people are going to look at this whole thing and say, “Hell, yeah, I’m bitter!” [/QUOTE] Instead of “So _that’s_ the real reason why I believe my religion and gun rights and preventing illegal immigration are important, according to Obama, huh? :dubious: And what’s he gonna \*do \* to fix it?”, that is? ISTM that’s where his trouble lies with the upcoming rounds of lower-income voters - both in sounding condescending about the origins of their belief systems and in not selling a detailed economic stimulus package that will help them economically, not so much in calling them “bitter”. Clinton learned not to make that mistake, of telling people what their issues are instead of asking them, in her “listening tour” of upstate NY (with the same problems as PA) in her first Senate campaign. This is the first time Obama has run a campaign against a real opponent outside his former IL state senate district, though, and he made a rookie blunder. Since we’re off-topic here, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/66 "2008-04-13T18:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Instead of “So _that’s_ the real reason why I believe my religion and gun rights and preventing illegal immigration are important, according to Obama, huh? :dubious: And what’s he gonna \*do \* to fix it?”, that is? ISTM that’s where his trouble lies with the upcoming rounds of lower-income voters - both in sounding condescending about the origins of their belief systems and in not selling a detailed economic stimulus package that will help them economically, not so much in calling them “bitter”. Clinton learned not to make that mistake, of telling people what their issues are instead of asking them, in her “listening tour” of upstate NY (with the same problems as PA) in her first Senate campaign. This is the first time Obama has run a campaign against a real opponent outside his former IL state senate district, though, and he made a rookie blunder. Since we’re off-topic here, that is. [/QUOTE] Oh this is just fucking rich. So his opponents in Illinois weren’t “real” opponents, they were just fakes, or figments of everyone’s imagination, and those campaigns don’t really count. And his blunder is a rookie one, which makes him unfit for the presidency, but Clinton’s “misspeaks” just make her human, and her piss poor financial planning and cronyistic hiring practices and keeping a political PR guy who’s actively negotiating against her interests with a foreign government as a paid campaign strategist, those are _experienced_ blunders, so that’s A-OK, right? What a retarded argument. And for the record, [Bill Clinton said almost the exact same thing as Barack Obama](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYi_qNWdjgw), just this past December. Watch and listen for yourself. > [@Bill Clinton](#): > > _ **The Charlie Rose Show, December 15th, 2007** _ > > So I think that the rise of this has sort of crystalized for a lot of people. That I think doubling healthcare premiums has had a lot to do with this. The further loss of health care coverage in America. \*\*So there’s a lot of economic anxiety. In the Republican party is expresses itself as this sort of very hard line against immigration. In the Democratic party it expresses itself in a very hard line against trade. But the real problem is we haven’t created enough good new jobs. \*\* But when Barack Obama says there’s a lot of economic anxiety and bitterness, and people express their frustrations by focusing on immigration and NAFTA and gun control, etc., his is a “blunder,” but former President Clinton is a genius. Please. Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/67 "2008-04-13T19:14:22Z")
The “bitter” remark will become for Obama what “I was for the 87 billion…” became for John Kerry. He has essentially handed his opponents a club and begged his opponents to beat him senseless with it. I read [this article](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9561.html) on RealClearPolitics and rather than paraphrase, I’ll just link it. Charismatic stump speeches will not mitigate this mistake, lingering questions about Rev. Wright or Obama’s liberal voting record. Many of you will not be able to accept this, of course. But you need to understand that you simply won’t have the numbers to overcome this at the ballot box, despite the fervor of your passion. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/68 "2008-04-13T19:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] […]or Obama’s liberal voting record. [/QUOTE] You bring this up as if it’s an objectively bad thing. Frankly, I’d be more concerned if a Democratic nominee had a conservative voting record, but maybe that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/69 "2008-04-13T19:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] The “bitter” remark will become for Obama what “I was for the 87 billion…” became for John Kerry. He has essentially handed his opponents a club and begged his opponents to beat him senseless with it. I read [this article](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9561.html) on RealClearPolitics and rather than paraphrase, I’ll just link it. Charismatic stump speeches will not mitigate this mistake, lingering questions about Rev. Wright or Obama’s liberal voting record. Many of you will not be able to accept this, of course. But you need to understand that you simply won’t have the numbers to overcome this at the ballot box, despite the fervor of your passion. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s why [“Twenty-one elected officials and community leaders from small towns and rural areas throughout Pennsylvania today released an open letter asking fellow Pennsylvanians to set aside Senators Clinton and McCain’s recent attempts at political point-scoring and consider who will fight for them as President”](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/caitlinharvey/gGBpNz) > [@](#): > > Dear Fellow Pennsylvanian, > > We live in small towns and rural areas throughout Pennsylvania and we support Barack Obama for President. > > A few days ago, Sen. Obama made some comments that his opponents are now using to make him appear as if he is something he is not. Instead of speaking to us honestly about how they intend to solve the problems we are facing, they are playing the same old Washington games that accomplish nothing. > > What Sen. Obama said is that over the last 25-30 years, working class people in places like Pennsylvania have been falling behind, and that politicians in Washington haven’t been looking out for them. He also said that, as a result, many people have become frustrated, angry and even bitter about all the broken promises. > > He was right. > > The politicians who are now saying that we shouldn’t be frustrated are the ones who are out of touch. > > People in the towns and communities we live in have seen their jobs shipped overseas. We’ve seen our pensions disappear. We’ve seen our health care costs skyrocket. We’ve seen everything from the cost of gasoline to a gallon of milk go through the roof. > > As our families have struggled to make ends meet and our communities fought to stay intact, how has Washington responded? By giving tax breaks to the wealthy, rewarding corporations who ship jobs overseas, and turning the levers of power over to the lobbyists and special interests. > It’s easy to feel a little frustrated when you see these Washington politicians continue to ignore you. But it’s not the only emotion we feel. When someone comes along who is untainted by the system in Washington, who doesn’t take money from federal lobbyists or special interests and who promises that things can be different, we feel something else—hope. > > That’s why we’re supporting Barack Obama. Others have come along and promised change, but failed to deliver. Sen. Obama is different than the rest. He doesn’t take money from the special interests, and he speaks honestly about the issues we are facing. > > In addition to supporting his plans for jobs, health care and education, we believe that he can deliver on his promises to ensure economic opportunity for family farmers, to provide support for rural economic development, to promote renewable energy in rural America, to protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting, and to preserve open land for hunting and fishing. > > Unlike his opponents who have been part of the Washington establishment for decades, Barack Obama understands the struggles we are going through. We welcomed him with open arms as he made his way through small towns and rural areas on his recent bus tour across the state. And we will work day and night from now until the primary on his behalf not only because he has heard our frustrations, but because he speaks to our hope that Washington can actually work for people like us. > > Sincerely, > > Ted Alter, State College > > Westmoreland County Commissioner Tom Bayla, Greensburg > > Mayor John Brenner, York > > Lloyd Casey, West Chester – President, Pennsylvania Forestry Association > > Mayor John Fetterman, Braddock > > Mayor Rick Gray, Lancaster > > Scott Harrison, Warriors Mark > > State Representative Bryan Lentz, Swarthmore > > State Senator Sean Logan, Monroeville > > Carl Majji, Claysville – Corporal, U.S. Army > > Mayor Thomas McMahon, Reading > > State Senator Bob Mellow – Pennsylvania Senate Democratic Leader > > U.S. Representative Patrick Murphy, Doylestown – U.S. Congressman (PA-08) > > Perry County Commissioner Steve Naylor, New Bloomfield > > Lackawanna County Commissioner Corey O’Brien, Dunmore > > Fran Rodriquez, Lancaster > > State Representative Josh Shapiro, Abington – Deputy Speaker, Pennsylvania House of Representatives > > Major General Walter Stewart, Berks County – Former Commander, 28th Infantry Division, Pennsylvania Army National Guard > > State Representative Dan Surra, St. Marys > > State Representative Thomas Tangretti, Greensburg > > Lackawanna County Commissioner Michael Washo, Scranton And [The Pennsylvania _Morning Call_ endorsed Senator Obama today](http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/all-a.6348993apr13,0,4038021,print.story). . . > [@](#): > > Obama’s vision is reason to nominate him > > April 13, 2008 > > Pennsylvania’s Democratic voters on April 22 will choose between two candidates in the presidential primary. Both are qualified to become the nation’s chief executive. They have more similarities than differences. But, The Morning Call recommends that Sen. Barack Obama be nominated, and we offer three reasons. > > The first is the quality of his campaign. It has surprised the experts by moving him close to the finish line against bigger, more established political machines and it has communicated his basic ideas well. > > The second is his message of hope and change. It conveys a vision of the nation’s future that is in tune with the tenor and consensus of most Americans. > > And third, and most important for the Democratic Party at this moment in history, there is Sen. Obama’s ability to inspire. > > . . . > > Then, there is his ability to inspire. It starts with his unmatched oratorical skills. His speech in Philadelphia on March 18 about race in America will join the greatest speeches in this nation’s history in future textbooks on that topic. The combination of his scholarship, career experience and personal style leaves listeners at first rapt and then inspired. His oratory soars because he has a desire to listen to and represent all Americans – the ‘‘vision thing’’ as President George H.W. Bush once called it. Sen. Clinton, by contrast, too often just sounds like a partisan, and that isn’t change. > > Sen. Clinton has made much of her ‘‘ability to lead’’ on day one in the Oval Office. Past experience like hers is one thing, but leadership also depends on having a vision, plans to pursue that vision, and an ability to inspire others to follow. On those grounds, Sen. Barack Obama is well-suited to lead, and The Morning Call recommends his nomination in the Democratic primary. And then he also earned the [endorsement of the Scranton, Pennsylvania _Times-Tribune_](http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19480144&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=418218&rfi=6) this morning (don’t forget, Scranton is Clinton’s family’s “home town”). . . > [@](#): > > Barack Obama, for leadership > > 04/13/2008 > **All of the myriad issues facing the next president of the United States coalesce into a single question: Who can best lead?** > > For Pennsylvania Democrats, the best answer in the April 22 primary is Barack Obama. > > In a nomination campaign that has defied convention, Mr. Obama has energized an entire generation of voters that, for the most part, otherwise had checked out of political participation. That, at least, portends a new approach to governance that can help to dissipate the political miasma that has engulfed Washington at least since the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton. > > . . . > > But Mrs. Clinton also is a political lightning rod. There is little doubt that a second Clinton presidency would further the deep divisiveness that characterizes American politics — a divisiveness that dug itself deep during the Clinton presidency, and even deeper during the Bush-Cheney years. > > . . . > > Mrs. Clinton has dismissed much of what Mr. Obama has had to say as “just words.” But they are words that millions find inspirational. Therefore, they are words that can be translated into action. > > On policy matters, there are more similarities than differences between the candidates. The real difference lies in their likely ability to build the consensus needed to realize their vision. The advantage, in that regard, clearly lies with Mr. Obama. And then, of course, there’s the fact that he [just picked up another Superdelegate endorsement today, as well](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNxTApa2sQRu0Xx99P3jt2bEXw7gD900UL7G0). > [@](#): > > **Superdelegate goes for Obama** > > MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — One of Minnesota’s last uncommitted Democratic superdelegates is backing Barack Obama, the Obama campaign announced Sunday. > > Nancy Larson, of Dassel, a Democratic National Committee member, told The Associated Press she decided to support Obama because his campaign will bring new people into the political process, and she believes he has the best chance of winning in November. > > “It’s looking more and more that the one person who can do it is Barack Obama,” Larson said. > > . . . But yeah, he’s sunk. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/70 "2008-04-13T20:19:20Z")
As I said in an earlier thread, politics is sales, and rule no 1 in sales is, Don’t antagonize the customer. Obama’s been caught speaking derisively about some of the core beliefs and practices of people whose votes he desperately needs in a close upcoming election. At best it’s an incredibly boneheaded maneuver. Essentially, Obama is frustrated with not being able to make more headway with working class white folks in PA. So he says, effectively, that it’s not really his fault that his message isn’t selling. The customers are bitter. They’re religious fanatics (pot meet kettle?) and gun nuts. But Obama’s statement was really just the defensiveness of a man with a large, surprising brittle ego. Not really my fault, he’s saying. They’re bitter. No. It is your fault. You want to be the president, leader of the free world. Carry the weight. Suck it up. Don’t tell anyone that it’s really the voters fault for not supporting you. Work harder, find a better way to get your message across. It may be that Obama has a fundamental misunderstanding of the country he seeks to lead. The rap against Democrats for a generation in US politics has been that they are elitists who look down on the common man, especially rural, religious white folks. Obama’s smart enough to know this, but he still stumbles right into the same trap. A lot of these rural white folks will have a perfectly reasonable question to ask Obama: Is life on the South Side of Chicago so wonderful for the working poor that we should want these “benefits” in our town too? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/71 "2008-04-13T20:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] \ A lot of these rural white folks will have a perfectly reasonable question to ask Obama: Is life on the South Side of Chicago so wonderful for the working poor that we should want these “benefits” in our town too? [/QUOTE] It was a mistake. An admitted mistake. Just like Clinton - everyone makes mistakes. People were up in arms about Clinton flat out lying a couple weeks ago, this week it’s Obama’s turn to face the squad. Status Quo in my opinion. Does Obama fundamentally misunderstand the country he seeks to lead - of course not, he’s a human being who made a dumb mistake. He wouldn’t be where he is today if it were not for the men and women of the USA putting him there, Obama’s supporters know this. As of today the man is [significantly](http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obama_leads_clinton_signifcant.html) ahead of Clinton nationally, and has been pulling away for weeks. Slowly but surly - slow change tends to be more permanent change. Did Obama eff up? Yup. Enough to cost him anything in this race - I doubt it. It certainly won’t cost him the nomination…He will have to fight this during the general for sure. But he will hopefully have chosen wisely a good Veep and he will no longer be alone. A percentage of Clintonites will vote Obama because he a democrat, a percentage will vote Obama because they were on the fence and originally chose Clinton but would be more than happy with Obama. I don’t see this as fundamentally damaging anything, and I’m fresh out of coolaide. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/72 "2008-04-13T20:43:45Z")
It was only a glass of damn orange juice, **phl**. Yes, he’ll survive it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/73 "2008-04-13T20:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] It was only a glass of damn orange juice, **phl**. Yes, he’ll survive it. 😃 [/QUOTE] 😃 Gah! I know I was talking about the other thing but… Maybe he can order a coffee for his veep? Hopefully he/she like coffee. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/74 "2008-04-13T21:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Oh this is just fucking rich. So his opponents in Illinois weren’t “real” opponents, they were just fakes, or figments of everyone’s imagination, and those campaigns don’t really count. [/quote] Will you \*please \* try to read first before you reply? I said this is his first campaign _outside his IL state senate district_ against a \*real \* opponent. Do you seriously believe _Alan Keyes_ was a real opponent? 😛 > [@](#): > > And his blunder is a rookie one, which makes him unfit for the presidency Didn’t say that last part either, or any of the rest of the spewage that followed. Can you \*please \* stop wasting precious, irreplaceable electrons here with these misrepresentations? :dubious: > [@](#): > > What a retarded argument. Anybody else want to take that one? 😉 > [@](#): > > \And for the record, [Bill Clinton said almost the exact same thing as Barack Obama](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYi_qNWdjgw), just this past December. Word of advice: “No, YOU are!” is not usually an effective argument here. Or anywhere else, for that matter. Even when it’s accurate, which this is not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/75 "2008-04-13T22:25:04Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] 😃 Gah! I know I was talking about the other thing but… Maybe he can order a coffee for his veep? Hopefully he/she like coffee. 🙂 [/QUOTE] You talkin about them **arab** ica beans? Can’t believe all of you are ignoring the ties to terrorism. God bless Obama for denouncing and rejecting coffee! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/76 "2008-04-14T00:07:36Z")
I think his “And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” comment is going to really hurt his chances of courting small-town America. I resent the implication that bitterness leads to guns and religion. WTF is he thinking? I’m thinking Barrack is out of touch. Hillary is of course not an option, and McCain will be more of the same as GWB. Not loving the choices here. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/77 "2008-04-14T00:17:27Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] But yeah, he’s sunk. [/QUOTE] Twenty two people and two newspapers don’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. The first thing you need to ask yourself is whether you accept the premise that Obama did damage to himself with these remarks. If you can’t, then further conversation is pointless. If you are prepared to admit that he has damaged himself, then the discussion turns to how badly he hurt himself and how long the affect will linger. That answer depends on the audience. Republicans will happily flog him with this until November. Clinton democrats will do so until the convention. Obama supporters will continue to rationalize and attempt to deflect and excuse. In the short term, he has given Clinton an opening when she was close to being knocked out. He has also planted doubts in the minds of moderates, “Reagan Democrats” and others who see John McCain as a viable alternative and the general election. I believe the other points raised in the article I linked to be relevant as well. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/78 "2008-04-14T00:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] The first thing you need to ask yourself is whether you accept the premise that Obama did damage to himself with these remarks. If you can’t, then further conversation is pointless. [/QUOTE] Because, of course, if **Evil One** , who was 99% unlikely to vote for either Obama or Clinton in the first place, decides that Obama is damaged because he told the goddamn truth, then for god’s sake, people, he’s damaged! Never mind that people are much less stupid than the Republicans or the DLC think they are. People ARE bitter. They ARE angry with the way the Republicans have been mismanaging the country for the last seven years. They ARE ready for change. I still don’t think Obama said anything wrong or bad or damaging in the first place. The only people saying what he said was damaging are the traditional media, McCain’s campaign (which is scared to DEATH to face Obama in the fall), and Clinton’s campaign (who would sell Chelsea to the gypsies if it would guarantee the Gypsy vote). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/79 "2008-04-14T00:29:59Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] It was a mistake. An admitted mistake. Just like Clinton - everyone makes mistakes. People were up in arms about Clinton flat out lying a couple weeks ago, this week it’s Obama’s turn to face the squad. Status Quo in my opinion. Does Obama fundamentally misunderstand the country he seeks to lead - of course not, he’s a human being who made a dumb mistake. [/QUOTE] Devil’s advocate: one could say this is just not a mistake - this is a mistake that reveals a fundamental truth about Obama’s thoughts and feelings that he’s tried hard to hide: that he’s an elitist snob who looks down on the poor and rural in contempt. In that case, would it be such a stretch to believe that this error, which will undoubtedly be hammered to death by McCain and/or his supporters, could cost him the Presidency? ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/80 "2008-04-14T00:44:13Z")
The problem is not that he said they were bitter. The problem is that he attached reasons why small town America is not voting for him. A terrible mistake. His feelings and beliefs are being exposed. And he and his supporters still don’t get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=5)