# Latest Obama Scandal: Can he Survive This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048 "2008-04-12T16:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/81 "2008-04-14T01:14:04Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Devil’s advocate: one could say this is just not a mistake - this is a mistake that reveals a fundamental truth about Obama’s thoughts and feelings that he’s tried hard to hide: that he’s an elitist snob who looks down on the poor and rural in contempt. In that case, would it be such a stretch to believe that this error, which will undoubtedly be hammered to death by McCain and/or his supporters, could cost him the Presidency? [/QUOTE] I don’t believe that this has revealed anything about Obamas thoughts and feelings towards poor and rural folks. I believe he’s a man who made a mistake. He is the same man who gave up big corporate jobs after Harvard to go work for the poor underprivilaged folks in Chicago - on the street. You think this statement by him means all those feelings that led him to make _that_ decision do not exist? That he is somehow a different man? Would an elitist snob forego big time money in a big time corporation to work with poor underprivilaged folks? I don’t I’m not saying you believe this, or maybe you do I don’t know, what I am saying is Obama made a mistake - jumping ahead and saying it reveals a fundamental truth is a jump I’m not sure any of us are fit to make. Certainly not one I am willing to look into. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/82 "2008-04-14T01:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Because, of course, if **Evil One** , who was 99% unlikely to vote for either Obama or Clinton in the first place, decides that Obama is damaged because he told the goddamn truth, then for god’s sake, people, he’s damaged! [/QUOTE] If he had said, “The people are bitter because they’ve lost their jobs and been promised things that never materialized” or whatever, that would be fine. But my understanding is that he basically said that the things they believe in, such as gun ownership and religion, are not ‘natural’ things to believe in, but rather the result of bitterness. Not only that, he also claimed that they were xenophobic because of their bitterness. That’s not only a poor reading of what motivates people, but it’s a pretty thinly veiled insult. Will this ‘sink’ Obama? I doubt it. He’s got the intellect and speaking ability to come out and do some serious damage control, just as he did with the Wright issue. But it does give more ammo to his opponent in the general election, and more ammo for Hillary to stay in the race, and neither of those things help Obama. The gaffe is damaging because, like all the gaffes that really damage a politician, it plays into what people are worried most about his candidacy. If people are worried about your intelligence, you’d better not say something stupid. If people are worried about your temper, you’d better not raise your voice too much. People are worried that Obama is more liberal and out of touch and elitist than he claims to be, so errors which reinforce that perception do the most damage. This is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/83 "2008-04-14T01:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I don’t believe that this has revealed anything about Obamas thoughts and feelings towards poor and rural folks. I believe he’s a man who made a mistake. He is the same man who gave up big corporate jobs after Harvard to go work for the poor underprivilaged folks in Chicago - on the street. You think this statement by him means all those feelings that led him to make _that_ decision do not exist? That he is somehow a different man? Would an elitist snob forego big time money in a big time corporation to work with poor underprivilaged folks? I don’t I’m not saying you believe this, or maybe you do I don’t know, what I am saying is Obama made a mistake - jumping ahead and saying it reveals a fundamental truth is a jump I’m not sure any of us are fit to make. Certainly not one I am willing to look into. [/QUOTE] You just don’t undertand what the problem is for Obama, do you. I’m the first poster to bring this up (post #22) and check out post number 80. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/84 "2008-04-14T01:51:44Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] You just don’t undertand what the problem is for Obama, do you. I’m the first poster to bring this up (post #22) and check out post number 80. [/QUOTE] As an Obama supporter and someone who understands the dynamics of an election, I see this as a PR clusterf\*ck. I do not see it as a campaign breaker or something that reflects Obama’s fundamental core value system - I feel I know my candidate a little better than that. Do you expect every Obama suppporter to … what? Jump ship? All of a sudden change our minds because of this? What don’t you think I understand? I’m not trying to be snarky, I’m asking because I’m open to the fact that maybe I’m missing something… ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/85 "2008-04-14T01:58:08Z")
Everyone’s an amateur campaign analyst. instead of having a national conversation about why rural types tend to have the obsessions that they do, we’re all focused on counting how many votes it’s going to cost Obama. Being a fundamentalist gun nut is bad and wrong, but in our culture, bad and wrong are defined as saying things that push these people’s buzz-buttons. I don’t think people who live in rural areas are more likely than others to lose their gun rights, and I don’t think they know more about the world so as to know that the fundamentalist worldview is the more accurate one. I guess I don’t know if they are more likely to be adversely affected by illegal immigration, but they’re definitely less likely to hurt in a terrorist attack or otherwise adversely affected by Muslims. So why the obsession. We’re more concerned with what millions of stupid people are going to do to Obama than with the fact that there are millions of stupid people who pretty much control who the leader of the most important country in the world is going to be. And yet the issue is ow going to become what a bad person I am for putting it that way. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/86 "2008-04-14T02:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] And for the record, [Bill Clinton said almost the exact same thing as Barack Obama](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYi_qNWdjgw), just this past December. Watch and listen for yourself. [/QUOTE] No, Clinton’s issues are much more related and logical. He says that bad economic conditions can lead to people blaming immigration, free trade agreements, etc. Whether or not the attitude is correct, it’s at least related to blame those things for your economic conditions. Obama goes much further than that. He claims that gun rights advocacy, and religious… something (not sure exactly which part he meant) resulted from the same misplaced anger over economic disenfranchisement. As someone who takes gun rights as a very serious issue, both philosophically and practically, I’m very insulted by his stance, suggesting that my advocacy and philosophical beliefs are the result of misplaced anger over things less in my control. And he throws in racism with it - he’s saying that the same thing that makes people “cling to guns” causes people to have “anti-pathy to people who aren’t like them”. I essentially took it as “stupid gun nuts and religious yokels only focus on those issues because they don’t know what’s best for them”. Wrong interpretation? Maybe. But you’ll probably dismiss this as “people who make a big deal of this are the same people who will be critical of anything he says anyway” - but that’s not true in my case. I’ve been mostly pro-Obama in these threads. And this issue, to me, doesn’t seem like a simple faux pas. While getting hung up on the “bitter” thing is stupid (of course people are bitter, and they should be), the way he lumps in gun rights and religion in with anti-immigration, anti-free trade, and racist sentiments may indicate what he thinks about large classes of people, and it’s not good. ---
**Author:** ![Tabithina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@Tabithina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabithina)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/87 "2008-04-14T02:10:08Z")
Interestingly, FOX News was interviewing people in PA, to ask them, “Are you bitter?” So far, the videos they have put up in this article are two people who feel that Obama is right. One will not vote for him, but agrees with him anyhow. > **[Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News...](https://www.foxnews.com/)** > > Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from FOXNews.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports. Being FOX news and all, I’m sure they’ll find an unbitter Pennsylvanian to interview sooner or later. If you click on this link tomorrow, I’m referring to the two oldest videos. FWIW, I’m a small-town voter with a high school education who lost a job a few years ago due to NAFTA. THere are empty factories all over in small towns in SW Missouri. The bitter— yep, I’m feelin’ it. When he went on to mention guns, gay marriage and religion, part of me was thinking, “Oh no, Barack, don’t go there.” But all the while I was nodding in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/88 "2008-04-14T02:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Would an elitist snob forego big time money in a big time corporation to work with poor underprivilaged folks? I don’t. [/QUOTE] Sure, you can be elitist with good intentions. I don’t doubt that he thinks he knows what’s best and genuine wants to do good. But thinking “those poor dumb slobs don’t know what’s good for them, but _I_ do” is dangerous. Many a government has commited evil acts that they thought were in the ultimate good, because they knew what was best. Might I point out that **Sqweels** is demonstrating the attitude that people are worried that Obama has? That people that believe in something other than him are “bad and wrong”? He’s demonstrating, in defense of Obama, the exact same “stupid religious nuts and gun nuts don’t know what’s best for them” attitude that Obama may have displayed. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/89 "2008-04-14T02:23:53Z")
For those of you who don’t realize this is insulting, let me turn this around for you: What if he said that because people were bitter and disenfranchised economically, they focused on issues like abortion rights, free speech rights, being racist, anti-immigrant, and anti-trade sentiment? In that same dismissive, condescending way. If you see the statement in a different light thinking of it that way, it reflects that your bias makes you agree with him - that those poor dumb idiots that don’t believe the same things you do are too dumb to know what’s good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/90 "2008-04-14T02:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] For those of you who don’t realize this is insulting, let me turn this around for you: What if he said that because people were bitter and disenfranchised economically, they focused on issues like abortion rights, free speech rights, being racist, anti-immigrant, and anti-trade sentiment? In that same dismissive, condescending way. [/quote] He didn’t say _anything_ in a dismissive, condescending way. Nothing. That’s the spin the media, McCain and Clinton are putting on it because it serves their purpose. How about you read what someone who was actually _at_ that fundraiser has to say about the tone and tenor with which he made that statement. > [@](#): > > [http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGBWFD/commentary](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGBWFD/commentary) > > I was at the Obama fundraiser in San Francisco that has gotten so much attention of late. It was a small event, maybe 250 people. Having seen Obama speak at large rallies, this event had more of a living room feel, despite the fact that people were packed in like sardines in a large private house. Obama’s speech was part stump speech, part relaxed conversation with his supporters. > > At the end of this small event Obama took four questions, one of which was from a couple of supporters going to Pennsylvania to work for the campaign. They wanted to know what kinds of questions they could expect to get from people in Pennsylvania. Obama began to answer their question by talking about the cultural and geographic diversity in Pennsylvania. He then proceeded to talk about what kind of attitudes and obstacles they might run into in the parts of the state that had been economically devastated by job loss. He talked about the fact that they would run into great cynicism about Washington or any promise of political change. He talked about the frustration and yes, bitterness, in some of these areas, where people had lost industry and jobs twenty five years before, jobs that never came back. He talked about the culture in these communities and what people had done to cope with economic hardship. This was an attempt both to tell these supporters what they might run up against and what were the challenges for the campaign in the industrial Midwest as a whole. Obama was both giving a speech to the supporters present at the event and a heart-to-heart to this couple that was ready to go door-to-door in Pennsylvania. > > Imagine my surprise to see an article in the Huffington Post by Mayhill Fowler describing his answer as “a problematic judgment call in trying to explain working class culture to a much wealthier audience.” and his answer being like “explaining the yawning cultural gap that separates a Turkeyfoot from a Marin County.” I guess Ms. Fowler thought that, unlike herself, the other attendees had never gone outside the large house in Pacific Heights where the event was held. I grew up working class in Texas. I thought it ironic that Ms Fowler, was attempting to paint Obama as a condescending elitist, while at the same time she was stereotyping everybody at the event with her omniscient insight. In any case, her agenda was clear. Despite Ms. Fowler talking about the people at the fundraiser being middle class in an earlier post, the “rich man poor man” theme fit better with the “Obama as a judgmental elite, talking to judgmental elites” spin. This also seemed to fit with some of her earlier articles where she had described Obama as cocky, arrogant, and even “flirty”. What a coincidence that she now writes an article putting another twist on Obama’s personality. All she had to do was a sneak a recorder in an small event for Obama supporters and do a little bit of crafty writing and out of context editing. Now Fox News and Lou Dobbs are having a field day. > > It was great seeing Obama in a relaxed setting, talking both in detail and inspiring prose, in what was essentially a large living room. > > Too bad there were roaches under the sofa. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > If you see the statement in a different light thinking of it that way, it reflects that your bias makes you agree with him - that those poor dumb idiots that don’t believe the same things you do are too dumb to know what’s good for them. No, the fact that _you_ see his statement as “dismissive and condescending” because it mentioned your pet issue is reflective of _your_ bias. The man did not imply that rural Pennsylvanians were dumb idiots who don’t know what’s good for them. That is as tortured and biased an interpretation as conceivable. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/91 "2008-04-14T02:50:59Z")
Your hostile tone isn’t helping yourself or Obama. I’m not religious at all, but if you had taken out the guns thing and left in the religious thing, it still may have struck me the same way. I have no pro-religion bias, and yet I could see how saying that people cling to their religion based on misplaced anger over economic disenfranchisement could be arrogant, elitist, and insulting. I originally read the AP story on yahoo news, I didn’t hear about it on some slanted fox news BS. Simply reading the quotes, he lumps in gun advocacy, religion, and racism as things people place importance on due to economic disenfranchisement and feelings of powerlessness over it. At the very least, he views people for whom gun rights issues are important as being misguided about their own self interest, right? How is your account from someone who was there supposed to sway me? If the person writing it is in agreement with Obama, it wouldn’t strike them as condescending either. People don’t like to think of themselves or their beliefs in negative ways. I’m sure there’s a whole lot of “those stupid country religious gun nut yokels don’t know what’s best for them” sentiment among Obama’s supporters. For what it’s worth, he may or may not be right. I’m no fan of the “fuck yeah! Bush, guns, God, and killing Arabs! Woo!” crowd. And maybe I am misinterpreting him. But that it’s certainly not absurd to be concerned over elitism based on what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Tabithina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@Tabithina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabithina)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/92 "2008-04-14T03:00:07Z")
Here’s a new youtube of Obama speaking in Steelton, PA earlier today. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIxmi3e2Vmo) I think he’ll weather this just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/93 "2008-04-14T03:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] Everyone’s an amateur campaign analyst. [/QUOTE] Yes, everybody is an amateur campaign analyst. That may very well be the best definition of “voter” I have ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/94 "2008-04-14T04:10:24Z")
The thing I like best about the current ‘guns and church’ thing is watching Hillary The Pathological Liar attempt to pass herself off as pro-gun, pro-church in order to capitalize on the mess. Oh, but the question of when she last fired a gun or went to church is “irrelevant”. :rolleyes: It was a damned stupid thing for Obama to say. Period. Obama is making some poor moves here and there (See: Edwards) that make him come off as an Elitist Dillweed. He really needs some work on that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/95 "2008-04-14T04:36:44Z")
I think I’ve figured out the real reason he waved off the coffee. He’s a Muslim - and those folks don’t hold no truck with caffeine. Oh wait, that’s Mormons :smack: Barak “Mitt” Obama, you’re secret is out :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/96 "2008-04-14T05:25:58Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] You bring this up as if it’s an objectively bad thing. Frankly, I’d be more concerned if a Democratic nominee had a conservative voting record, but maybe that’s just me. [/QUOTE] Conservatives for some reason think they are the normative mean, and then turn around and talk about how everyone is a sinner because they are being lead around by the nose by Hollywood. The idea that a liberal candidate’s being liberal is his Achilles heel is kind of bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/97 "2008-04-14T05:31:58Z")
**SenorBeef** I saw it more as a commentary about what they DON’T vote because of rather than what they DO vote because of. He was saying that htey are so cynical about economics that it doesn’t inform their positions when they vote. So he listed off a bunch of things that they are less cynical about that DOES inform their positions. Guns and Abortion he didn’t draw a distinction between pro and con on that one, and he mentioned immigration, which I think is a little bit more clear where most working class folk stand on that one. He didn’t say people are stupid, they vote for these isssues, he said, “These are the issues these people will vote on, which are unlikely to be economics because they are too bitter and cynical about that issue to think it’ll do much good.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/98 "2008-04-14T12:53:18Z")
[QUOTE=BarnOwl] FWIW… Chris Matthews’ mug is on the front cover of this week’s NY Times Sunday Magazine, and the feature article trashes him. If you dislike Chris, you’ll love the bashing he gets. [/QUOTE] Just to note, the article accuses of him of pretty blatant pro-Obama and anti-Hillary bias. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/99 "2008-04-14T13:01:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Just to note, the article accuses of him of pretty blatant pro-Obama and anti-Hillary bias. [/QUOTE] I think that’s pretty apparent. I don’t think it’s so much pro-Obama as he seems to have a very deep well of contempt for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048/100 "2008-04-14T13:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Tabithina] Interestingly, FOX News was interviewing people in PA, to ask them, “Are you bitter?” So far, the videos they have put up in this article are two people who feel that Obama is right. One will not vote for him, but agrees with him anyhow. > **[Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Video](https://www.foxnews.com/)** > > Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from FOXNews.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports. Being FOX news and all, I’m sure they’ll find an unbitter Pennsylvanian to interview sooner or later. If you click on this link tomorrow, I’m referring to the two oldest videos. FWIW, I’m a small-town voter with a high school education who lost a job a few years ago due to NAFTA. THere are empty factories all over in small towns in SW Missouri. The bitter— yep, I’m feelin’ it. When he went on to mention guns, gay marriage and religion, part of me was thinking, “Oh no, Barack, don’t go there.” But all the while I was nodding in agreement. [/QUOTE] Man! Barack’s campaign needs to use those video’s. When asked "are they bitter?"The older man says clearly “I know they are” I give Fox a little credit for posting them. It’s an easy thing to be selective about. It at least shows that some {hopefully many} average citizens understand what Barack is talking about and will see through through the Bullshit stories about elitism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-obama-scandal-can-he-survive-this/445048.md?page=6)