# Latest Tactic in Iraq....anthropology **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886 "2008-01-09T19:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/1 "2008-01-09T19:00:00Z")
I saw [this](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080109/us_nm/iraq_anthropologist_dc) really cool article on Yahoo! and thought I’d bring it here to debate how effective folks think it will be. It SOUNDS like what we should have been doing all along. However, perhaps there is a window of opportunity to try it now? > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD (Reuters) - As David Matsuda tells it, he’s probably the last person you’d expect to see in a U.S. military uniform climbing out of an armored vehicle in Iraq. > ADVERTISEMENT > > An anthropology professor from the East Bay campus of California State University near San Francisco, he’s a self-described peacenik who opposed the war in Iraq, did his academic research in Guatemala and never carries a gun. > > “I’m a Californian. I’m a liberal. I’m a Democrat,” he says. “My impetus is to come here and help end this thing.” > > Matsuda is part of the U.S. military “Human Terrain Team” (HTT) program, which embeds anthropologists with combat brigades in Iraq and Afghanistan in the hope of helping tactical commanders in the field understand local cultures. > [@](#): > > The program is controversial: the American Anthropological Association denounced it in October, saying it could lead to ethics being compromised, the profession’s reputation damaged, and worst of all, research subjects becoming military targets. > > Matsuda says the concern is based on a misunderstanding of what he has signed on to do. > > “There’s been a knee-jerk reaction in the anthropology community, that you’ve been co-opted, that you’re a warmonger, like you’re clubbing baby seals or something,” he said. “I came here to save lives, to make friends out of enemies.” > > Soldiers in northeastern Baghdad – an area transformed over the past year from one of the most violent parts of Iraq to one of the best illustrations of the security improvements of late 2007 – say they are grateful for Matsuda’s expertise as they make the transition from fighting to peacemaking. > [@](#): > > n December 2006, there were 450 killings in the area, mostly by sectarian death squads trying to drive rival groups out of their neighborhoods. There were just 15 killings last month, mainly by ordinary criminals, said Oclander. > > On Saturday, Matsuda – wearing a U.S. military uniform but unarmed – spent two hours with soldiers from 3rd Squadron, 7th Cavalry lingering on a street in Adhamiya where a few months ago U.S. forces would have had to fight either in or out. > > They meandered in and out of shops, bought falafel sandwiches and ate them on a street corner while playing with local children who already seemed to know their names. Periodically they knocked on doors and asked permission to come inside homes for a chat. They never turned down an offer of tea. > > Most of local people were friendly, although they complained about a lack of electricity and their suspicion of the Shi’ite-led government and its security forces. > > Matsuda said he had learned a lot that day – about who was moving into vacant houses and who was renting them out, how a local clinic got its medicines, how shop owners were getting funding to reopen their shops. > > “We have a window of opportunity here to make a difference for these people. We have to take it,” he said. -XT ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/2 "2008-01-09T20:03:00Z")
I read about this in the Times today. It was an article by an Air Force colonel criticizing the Counter-Insurgency Manual saying that people are taking it dogmatically at the expense of our high-tech military supremacy. His argument was that while things like this are a good idea that America’s dominance technologically keeps the bigger threats like China and Russia at bay. He agreed wholeheartedly with the use of cultural anthropologists on the ground, but said that winning the hearts and minds is useless if you can’t also blow the crap out of them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/3 "2008-01-09T20:32:18Z")
Do you have a link? -XT ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/4 "2008-01-09T20:36:08Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] He agreed wholeheartedly with the use of cultural anthropologists on the ground, but said that winning the hearts and minds is useless if you can’t also blow the crap out of them. [/QUOTE] Coulson’s Law: When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will surely follow. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/5 "2008-01-09T20:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Do you have a link? -XT [/QUOTE] [We Still Need the Big Guns](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/opinion/09dunlap.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin) - Charles J. Dunlap Jr. Sorry he’s a Major-General not a Colonel. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/6 "2008-01-09T21:37:27Z")
That Bush or whoever was in supreme charge in Iraq wasn’t out touring the countryside giving speaches to the general populace from week one to start communications going and getting them to stand up for their own country, already fairly well doomed the whole move. Trying to accomplish the same thing now, working with little dudes with no actual power, is silly. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/7 "2008-01-09T22:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] That Bush or whoever was in supreme charge in Iraq wasn’t out touring the countryside giving speaches to the general populace from week one to start communications going and getting them to stand up for their own country, already fairly well doomed the whole move. Trying to accomplish the same thing now, working with little dudes with no actual power, is silly. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because our undereducated President getting shot at in the middle of a war zone is a great way for him to spend his time. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/8 "2008-01-10T00:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Coulson’s Law: When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will surely follow. [/QUOTE] It sounds better in the original dog latin: > [@](#): > > “Cuius testiculous habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/9 "2008-01-10T00:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Yeah, because our undereducated President getting shot at in the middle of a war zone is a great way for him to spend his time. [/QUOTE] It is. It’s his war, he should put his candy ass on the line. > [@](#): > > “For this is what it means to be a king: to be first in every desperate attack and last in every desperate retreat, and when there’s hunger in the land (as must be now and then in bad years) to wear finer clothes and laugh louder over a scantier meal than any man in your land.” > –C. S. Lewis, _The Horse and His Boy_ ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/10 "2008-01-10T00:09:53Z")
The _New Yorker_ profiled the Australian anthropologist David Kilcullen and his work for the Pentagon on counterinsurgency in [this article](http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/12/18/061218fa_fact2) just over a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/11 "2008-01-10T00:38:36Z")
Here comes the science. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/12 "2008-01-10T00:42:16Z")
First, this is rather like going to medical school **after** you’ve killed the patient. It’s too late for much of anything useful to be done by anyone. Second, Bush and his buddies are still in charge, so there’s no reason to believe that any well meaning and/or competent people will be **allowed** to make a difference, if that’s even possible. And third, our position in Iraq is fundamentally weak because we are grossly in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/13 "2008-01-10T00:48:37Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] First, this is rather like going to medical school **after** you’ve killed the patient. It’s too late for much of anything useful to be done by anyone. [/quote] Nonsense. I suggest you read the news about what is happening in Iraq now. You might be surprised to learn that there is still a country and there are still people there, so there is some value in learning who is who within that complex tribal nation. > [@](#): > > Second, Bush and his buddies are still in charge, so there’s no reason to believe that any well meaning and/or competent people will be **allowed** to make a difference, if that’s even possible. For a year more. Besides they aren’t handling small everyday decisions. If you truly believe what you said you clearly know nothing about the way General Petraeus has organized things in Iraq. He has people in stations strategically placed within the community, at every station tehre are both Americans and Iraqis working together. Learning who the people are and the way they actually interact is useful intelligence for the forces there on the ground. > [@](#): > > And third, our position in Iraq is fundamentally weak because we are grossly in the wrong. Your opinion is well known, but you overestimate the value of it. Our possible actions might be limited by the egregious error that was made by going in, but that does not mean there is not left a plethora of possibility left to be managed. It’s funny, they are finally sending people in to actually _Gasp_ learn about who the Iraqis are, and the people who hated the war because we didn’t respect them to begin with are too cynical to accept it as a step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/14 "2008-01-10T00:50:39Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] First, this is rather like going to medical school **after** you’ve killed the patient. It’s too late for much of anything useful to be done by anyone. [/QUOTE] Why, you’re right! There is no possible way to even improve our status there one smidgin! No matter **what** we do, it’ll have no positive effect; even _leaving_ will do no good! So we should stay there, any maybe dump napalm on the populace periodically, and it won’t matter since the patient’s already dead anyway! [QUOTE=Der Trihs] Second, Bush and his buddies are still in charge, so there’s no reason that any well mean, competent people will be **allowed** to make a difference, even if that’s even possible. [/QUOTE] Funny, I thought that he was already there, making his little difference. I must have misread the OP. Of course, this is not to say that in the future Bush won’t go in there personally with an AK-47 and undo any small good he does. But with your certainty, I assume you have a cite for this future event? [QUOTE=Der Trihs] And third, our situation in Iraq is fundamentally weak because we are grossly in the wrong. [/QUOTE] Because, of course, bad guys always lose, and good guys always win. That _has_ to be the reason why things are going badly over there; being in the wrong _caused_ Bush to be an idiot, not the other way 'round. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/15 "2008-01-10T01:40:08Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Yeah, because our undereducated President getting shot at in the middle of a war zone is a great way for him to spend his time. [/QUOTE] a) The goal is to get things turned away from becoming a war zone before it becomes so. b) If you’re not willing to do what it takes to rebuild an occupied nation, you shouldn’t move to occupy it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/16 "2008-01-10T01:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] a) The goal is to get things turned away from becoming a war zone before it becomes so. b) If you’re not willing to do what it takes to rebuild an occupied nation, you shouldn’t move to occupy it. [/QUOTE] That’s all well and good, but putting a President on the Battlefield is stupid no matter how stupid the other factors are. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/17 "2008-01-10T01:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] That’s all well and good, but putting a President on the Battlefield is stupid no matter how stupid the other factors are. [/QUOTE] You’re saying then that it’s **impossible** to create a decently safe venue for an important figure to talk in? If nothing else there’s radio, dropping pamphlets from airplanes, loudspeakers from safe areas, etc. Treating Iraq as a war zone where everyone is an enemy, rather than as a ally who we seek to work with and aid, filled with some sort of silent majority who just wants to live their lives in safety and raise their children well, is where we failed with Iraq. Not with having too few troops or not getting sufficient aid from the UN (in my belief.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/18 "2008-01-10T02:53:18Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] That’s all well and good, but putting a President on the Battlefield is stupid no matter how stupid the other factors are. [/QUOTE] Definitely true, if Cheney doesn’t go with. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/19 "2008-01-10T17:56:12Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] You’re saying then that it’s **impossible** to create a decently safe venue for an important figure to talk in? If nothing else there’s radio, dropping pamphlets from airplanes, loudspeakers from safe areas, etc. [/QUOTE] Not impossible, merely irresponsible. Starting an irrational war does not justify further irrational acts. A President on the ground is an attractive terrorist target, certainly you can secure the area, but if there is ever a justification for dusting off the single Katyusha you have, that’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886/20 "2008-01-10T19:08:08Z")
**xtisme** Would you care to offer an opinion about the impact of this, perhaps you can help drive some discussion? I am very interested in the notion, it could have very profound effects on the middle-east and might actually propel Iraq further due to having more advanced demographic data than most middle-eastern nations. That demographic data can do a lot for marketing, governmental projects, any number of things. I’d like to see this problem approached from two directions: 1. How can this data help the Iraqi people in a civilian capacity? 2. What benefit does this have for the US military? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-tactic-in-iraq-anthropology/432886.md?page=2)