# Latest Ten Commandments nutjobbery **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2005, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700 "2005-01-20T10:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/41 "2005-01-21T13:45:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Normally, of course, in debate the proponent of an assertion is the one responsible for proof – that is, you cannot posit an idea and demand to be proven wrong. > > In this case, assuming, as **tomndebb** does, the bid process is open to all, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. If another group wants to place a different monument, all they have to do is outbid the Ten Commandments group. I cannot imagine the city would announce such a sale, and then, after another group won the bid, say, “Oops, just kidding!” Maybe not, but when people are trying to get Creationism taught in school on a technicality (evolution is a THEORY) and I don’t see anyone rushing to get other religions’ origins of life theories taught in the interest of fairness (though I’d love to see what happened if someone tried), you can’t really say my opinion is all that far-fetched. Not to mention my original post was a JOKE anyway. > [@Liberal](#): > > Doesn’t your party have enough problems without invoking Karl Marx? What the Hell are you talking about? What is “my party”? I don’t have a political affiliation, I’m not registered as ANY party, I think you assume too much. And I picked Karl Marx purely because it would be something that a lot of people wouldn’t want to see there and that some would find offensive; like I said in my other post, it really doesn’t matter WHAT the statue is, it would just be funny if someone put something a bunch of people would object to in front of the courthouse, next to the Ten Commandments, using the same reasoning they used to get their monument there. I seriously doubt it would go over without some sort of Hell (haha) being raised. Bog, do you just go around looking for stupid shit to argue over, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/42 "2005-01-21T18:31:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In this case, assuming, as **tomndebb** does, the bid process is open to all, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. If another group wants to place a different monument, all they have to do is outbid the Ten Commandments group. I cannot imagine the city would announce such a sale, and then, after another group won the bid, say, “Oops, just kidding!” You just did imagine it. And frankly, given that the city apparently actively wants to get the momument up any way they can think of, there’s no telling what they’ll do. They might well nix the sale if the wrong bidder gets it, or not have an open bid process at all. There’s no way to be certain until they do it, but “not imaginable?” Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/43 "2005-01-21T19:10:14Z")
I’m just wondering from a city planning perspective, if this is would be within defined uses at all. The property is probably zoned for government use or business use. It wouldn’t be available for “private use.” I’d think that churches would have to be on private property? I’m no expert on this however. Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/44 "2005-01-21T23:21:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > A disingenuous welcome indeed since your subjunctive assertion is not falsifiable. You are a much more positive influence on the boards when you resist the impulse to throw your little content-free darts at your pet issues from a safe distance. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/45 "2005-01-22T01:09:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Doesn’t your party have enough problems without invoking Karl Marx? Who’s citing party politics in this thread? I mean, aside from you? Or is being against theocracy a “party” now? Perhaps being a jerk is a party now, too, in which case I assume you’re their nominee for President in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/46 "2005-01-22T12:02:21Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? What is it with you and claims of things not being “falsifiable” that are easily falsifiable? Another group puts up something, and BANG, instant falsification. But another group has NOT put up something, you clueless dolt, and that’s the point. It’s called an ad logicam fallacy. A material implication is always true when its antecedant is false: “If the earth was created 6,000 years ago, then evolution is false.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/47 "2005-01-22T12:03:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Who’s citing party politics in this thread? I mean, aside from you? > > Or is being against theocracy a “party” now? Perhaps being a jerk is a party now, too, in which case I assume you’re their nominee for President in 2008. Dumbass. He suggested a statue of Karl Marx, who, with Engels, wrote, “The Manifesto of the Communist **Party**.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/48 "2005-01-22T12:06:27Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > You are a much more positive influence on the boards when you resist the impulse to throw your little content-free darts at your pet issues from a safe distance. You’ve just described this entire thread and the Pit in general. Why isn’t Poly’s “I knew somebody would come up with a Funny Cide to that line!” a little content-free dart? Are you certain you are not allowing your prejudice to establish a two-sided rule set? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/49 "2005-01-22T12:08:21Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Well, he was an agnostic. What religious views were you under the impression that he held? He said he was agnostic, and I take him at his word. What is the point of raising a statue of an agnostic to counter the Christian statue? At worst, all it would say is, “You guys could be right.” ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/50 "2005-01-22T12:16:18Z")
Like I said earlier, don’t you already have enough problems with mental health and credibility, and such? ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/51 "2005-01-22T15:27:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Dumbass. He suggested a statue of Karl Marx, who, with Engels, wrote, “The Manifesto of the Communist **Party**.” Point the first: I do not have a penis, though if I did, I would happily invite you to suck it. Point the second: I am not a Communist. I picked what I thought would be an offensive figure. Period. I said as much. The mental image of a statue of Karl Marx in front of a US courtroom makes me laugh because it is so horribly out of place and incongruous. It is TEH FUNNAY. The point wasn’t to offer an atheistic alternative to the Ten Commandment monument. It was to offer an equivalent that would offend staunch right-wingers and/or the Bible-thumpers. Because surely none of them would sit back and quietly let anyone do such a thing. They either can’t understand or won’t understand how a Ten Commandments monument in front of a courtroom could possibly be offensive. I only suggested giving them a taste of their own medicine. Could someone legally put a statue of whatever they want there, if they bought the land? Probably. But I SERIOUSLY doubt it would stay there very long, either by legal or illegal means. The only reason they can even start to get away with this Ten Commandments bullshit is because they have a majority opinion. If you want to impugn my politics, then take into consideration I voted for at least a dozen Libertarian candidates in the last election, as well as some Democrats. If ANY label applies, I am anti-Republican. All I really care about is balance of power and accountability and honesty in government. Put that in the pipe you have stuffed up your arse, and smoke it. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/52 "2005-01-22T16:37:44Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > It was to offer an equivalent that would offend staunch right-wingers and/or the Bible-thumpers. Because surely none of them would sit back and quietly let anyone do such a thing. They either can’t understand or won’t understand how a Ten Commandments monument in front of a courtroom could possibly be offensive. Maybe you didn’t like **jin’s** example, **Lib** , but surely she’s onto a valuable insight. Perhaps a prominent monument to Allah or Vishnu? A stone Torah? The core point is that statues and such trying to link the justice system to religious beliefs are howling inappropriate. Religion–_any_ religion, or the lack thereof–isn’t the pervue of Big Brother. None of their business. Full stop. I’m genuinely puzzled how this could possibly conflict with your staunchly Libertarian outlook. Nothing’s more personal than consience, faith, conviction. Individuals shouldn’t have to run a gauntlet of religious icons in order to access a house of justice. FTR, I’m in no way hostile to religion. Bewildered by some occassionally, but what other people believe is flat-out none of my business. Religion just isn’t something to be shoved in other people’s faces. Full stop. Veb ---
**Author:** ![beergeek279](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@beergeek279](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beergeek279)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/53 "2005-01-22T16:47:59Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > 3? I’d say more like 2 1/2: > > - No killing [law] > - No stealing [law] > - No bearing false witnesses against thy neighbor [law only in certain circumstances] > > But your point is well taken. I get particularly upset when folks claim that the 10 Commandments are part of our shared cultural heritage and are generic enough that they don’t really endorse any one religion. Did they bother reading the first one on the list? Well, in Indiana they’re sure the hell working hard to try to add “coveting thy neighbor’s ass” to that list. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/54 "2005-01-22T18:33:11Z")
I agree, a Darwin monument would be a good way to tweak the fundie’s noses. That or a Wiccan/Satanist monument, complete with Redes, Laws, Baphomaat, God and Goddess. Darwin would be the one that would have the most chance at being successfully placed though. Heh, it would be funny if there were some way to put up a Darwin monument, in such a way that it couldn’t be tampered with. In the midst of a cage full of lions comes to mind. (Though that wouldn’t be kind to the lions, so isn’t able to be put into practice.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/55 "2005-01-22T18:34:07Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Maybe you didn’t like **jin’s** example, **Lib** , but surely she’s onto a valuable insight. Perhaps a prominent monument to Allah or Vishnu? A stone Torah? The core point is that statues and such trying to link the justice system to religious beliefs are howling inappropriate. Religion–_any_ religion, or the lack thereof–isn’t the pervue of Big Brother. None of their business. Full stop. > > I’m genuinely puzzled how this could possibly conflict with your staunchly Libertarian outlook. Nothing’s more personal than consience, faith, conviction. Individuals shouldn’t have to run a gauntlet of religious icons in order to access a house of justice. > > FTR, I’m in no way hostile to religion. Bewildered by some occassionally, but what other people believe is flat-out none of my business. Religion just isn’t something to be shoved in other people’s faces. Full stop. > > Veb It’s just the incredible ineptitude. The right has mastered symbology, and the left has lost the knack for it completely. Karl Marx? Charles Darwin? This is completley the wrong approach. All it does is provide ammunition for the crowd to nail the coffin of leftist extremism shut. If you must build a statue to counter theirs, then build a statue of Jesus. And put this on a plaque at its feet: “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” — John 13:34 ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/56 "2005-01-22T18:37:19Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s just the incredible ineptitude. The right has mastered symbology, and the left has lost the knack for it completely. Karl Marx? Charles Darwin? This is completley the wrong approach. All it does is provide ammunition for the crowd to nail the coffin of leftist extremism shut. If you must build a statue to counter theirs, then build a statue of Jesus. And put this on a plaque at its feet: > > “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” — John 13:34 The reprimand it contains would fly right over their heads, the dart would fail to penetrate their thick hides. They’d read it, smile and pat themselves on the back for already following that law. That is why people are suggesting the placement of statues represtenting other ideas. Because after all, there is supposed to be “equal” representation. So, represent other ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/57 "2005-01-22T19:40:55Z")
I’m regularly astonished that **Liberal** can be so devastatingly funny himself, and so total incapable of getting the joke when it’s told by someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/58 "2005-01-22T20:03:15Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > The reprimand it contains would fly right over their heads, the dart would fail to penetrate their thick hides. They’d read it, smile and pat themselves on the back for already following that law. That is why people are suggesting the placement of statues represtenting other ideas. Because after all, there is supposed to be “equal” representation. So, represent other ideas. So then, how about a plaque reading: > [@gobear quoting the Bible](#): > > And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corner to be seen by men. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/59 "2005-01-22T20:35:29Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > Bog, do you just go around looking for stupid shit to argue over, or what? Hi. Welcome to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700/60 "2005-01-22T20:48:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If you must build a statue to counter theirs, then build a statue of Jesus. And put this on a plaque at its feet: > > “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” — John 13:34 Your masterful use of [boondock saints] symbolism [/bds] aside, the point is that people find such statues offensive, and a ‘counter’ statue would be to point out how any ‘side’s’ deeply held convictions would be obnoxious and inflamatory to other ‘sides’. Moreoever, you expect a bunch of atheists and such to put up a statue of Jesus in order to protest religious encroachment? Isn’t that sorta like fucking for virginity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latest-ten-commandments-nutjobbery/285700.md?page=4)