Latin American Dopers: Are you for or against FTAA?

Wow Rashak! Great minds thinking alike and all that…

Hmm. Not seein’ much evidence for “great minds” at work here, but this much is evident: You guys could be the poster children for the sort of foreign viewpoints you THINK Americans should be exposing themselves to in order to get a balanced perspective, but which in actuality are worthy only of being tuned out like any other screeching static.

Ammo52,

You’ve got a lot of learnin’ to do!

Unfortunately, I have been an Amerikan (but, fortunately, also Paraguayan) since the moment of my birth. Indeed, I am thinking of renouncing my Amerikan citizenship just as lots of Amerikan corporations have done lately, as it has brought me nothing but grief, regret, remorse and embarrassment, starting probably from the time of the Vietnam War. And now GWB is hocking the nation’s future!

This is a good topic for another thread, but let me say here that, as a Paraguayan only, I would encounter reduced threat to my person in Ciudad del Este or most anywhere else, including France; Not only would I pay much less in taxes, I would be a curiosity instead of world anathema and would not be subject to the USSA Selective Service draft.

I would still be entitled to my Social Insecurity, Medicrap, and return on investments in the USSA. I could still freely take jobs here, of course, though I probably would only return for food stamps, medicare, medicaid and other welfare-state provisions.

What would I lose? The right to vote for Tweedledum or Tweedledee or to bring in my wife and kids (ha! – which I’m too smart to have) from overseas. In short, there seems to be nothing to lose and everything to gain by renouncing Amerikan citizenship!

Yes, you will say that you bid me glad farewell, but I am indeed a nuclear physicist skilled in ICBM delivery, and, knowing this, you may well have reason to pass some sleepless nights until you and your fellow short-sighted Amerikans set things straight in the world.

Well, if nothing else, you quite accurately assess the degree of sorrow I would feel at seeing you renounce your citizenship and slink off to some third world shithole where you belong.

Just please… for the love of God, man, don’t use your “nuclear physicist ICBM delivery skills” :rolleyes: on us. Those kind of (yawn) sleepless nights I don’t need.

If the US is so unfair in it’s trading practices why does the US have a 4.5 billion $ trade deficit with Brazil for only the first 8 months of this year?

I believe the phrase used in a previous post was “screwing the poor southern americans” Seems as though someone there is making alot of money off the US

Let’s try to stay on-topic. Would FTAA/ALCA be good or bad for the people of Latin America?

Posted by Ale:

What particular USA subsidies are you talking about? And what’s Europe got to do with it?

I think the “shithole” is between the ears… but YSMV

I venture he is talking of agricultural subsidies… which the europeans take even further than the US.

Smaller!!! Are you refering to me? I´ll see you in the pit :slight_smile:

The problem we have with AlCA is that, at least in Bush version, we will give a lot more than what we are going to receive.
Moreover, we are suffering a bit of “frenchness” so even if America´s proposal was fair we would probably trash it.

It just ocurred to me that I didn’t answer the OP: I’m all for Alca. As pointed out by esquimalt, Brazil has a lot more to sell to the US than it has to buy from the US.

For me, personally, Alca would be very good too. I own a company which produces software and our competitors are two very large American sw companies (no, not Microsoft). We kick both their “behinds” in product quality, price and costumer support, so I would love to have the US market “openly” exposed to me.

Mamm

Why do you have difficulty selling your software in the US? I see software from other countries on the market here.

esquimalt: in short, Brazilian taxes. Brazilian’s government gets a big share of all the money that enters the country. I already developed sw for an American company (as an independent contractor) and had to pay our “big brother” here its share of my earnings.

Typically, theses taxes are lowered a lot when some kind of international free trade agreement is made. We have one (Mercosul) currently active that did just that: very little taxes on the commerce between the countries that subscribe to it. So that’s why I’m eagerly anticipating Alca…

Mamm

That makes sense to me. What is the other side of the story? Is it the government that is opposed because it will lower taxes or something else?

esquimalt, adhering or not to Alca (FTAA) is currently a big issue here in Brazil. Everybody is discussing it. In fact, this issue was on the cover of “Veja” magazine (Brazilian’s “Time”) a few weeks ago.

I know that international trade is a very complex issue, and I’m far from an expert on it. But what I can gather is that this subject causes a very polarized reaction in people: there’s on group (the “pratical” one), composed by people like me, who believes that Alca will be good for Brazil in the long run, and there’s another group (the “ideological” one) who is against Alca because they think that implementing Alca will represent the “de facto” extension of the US empire over South America.

The worst thing is that both groups are represented in Brazilian’s government, and because of that Brazil didn’t reached an “official” position regarding the subject yet. That’s why Brazilian’s negotiatiors make fools of themselves at Alca’s negotiation meetings (like the one that’ll happen in Miami)…

Thanks Mamm

Can you explain to me the concept of the “US Empire” that concerns so many people in Brazil (& elsewhere) I see it alot on these boards & it makes no sense to me.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/country/index.html

I was looking over these figures last night on the trade deficits & I was shocked by the imbalances. Do the people in Brazil point to a certain country or countries that fall under this “empire” that they are afraid of being swallowed into or are the people being fed a load of BS.

esquimalt, this entire post is just MHO.

I think that the US empire is a reality in the current world, just as the Roman or the British empire were a reality in the past. I think that the US uses at least two of the factors the empires use to “dominate”:

  • culture: US cultural (music, movies, TV, etc) products - and I use “cultural” in the loosest possible way here - are consumed all over the world. This generates a lot of money to American companies and spreads the American way of seeing things all over the world. I’ll never forgive the US for all the Britney and “Sex and the city” crap that is dumped everywere, all the time.:slight_smile:

  • military: that one goes without saying, right? Just watch what is being done in the Middle East right now (and I’ll refrain from posting my opinion on this particular subject to stick to the OP’s subject at hand).

As every empire that ever existed, a lot of ressentiment is generated all over the “dominated” world, and this building ressentiment is one of the main causes of said empire’s declining. I think the the US empire is already past its finest hour, and is already on its way out.

So, in short, I think that you can agree with me that such a thing as an US empire really exists, right?

Oh please, please, let me be the first to say it. Cite?

esquimalt, I forgot to answer your last question: I, particularly, do not point to any country that is afraid of being swallowed by the US empire. “Au” contrary, I point to two countries that benefited A LOT for increasing trading with the US: Mexico an South Corea.

bayonet, please, we are over that already. Let’s stick to discuss Alca, shall we?

Ok, I have read many posts about how US dominates the world by “dumping” or forcing products on other countries & I think this is unjustified based on what comes into the US versus what goes out. The French often complain about McDonalds but if nobody ate there they would not be in business. I do not listen to Britney & neither do my kids. But some people do. If nobody bought her music she would not be in business.

Is the US an “economic colony” of China?

One more question out of curiosity. In YHO what was the US Empires finiest hour?