# Latin in Catholic services--making a comeback? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958 "2018-12-31T04:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/81 "2019-01-07T02:08:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This would fly in direct contradiction to my experience where the few people who sought out a mass in Latin would be a mixture of sedevacantists, people who grew up being told (pre-Vatican II) that the church was perpetually unchanging (being unaware of even the changes that occurred between Trent and Vatican II) who were frightened by the changes, and some who were angry that they could now eat meat on Friday without going to hell. I have only met two people who were strong proponents of the Latin mass who could even discuss theology without falling back on the Baltimore Catechism Volume I. Fair enough for you, but that’s not my experience at all. > [@tomndebb](#): > > As for your comments regarding reverence, I reject them. What you are describing is not reverence, (_i.e._ demonstrating respect), but a specific form of comportment. There is nothing wrong with avoiding the familiar when in church; it is one form of reverence. However, it is a specific form that is hardly the only form. What is irreverent, (_i.e._ failing to show respect), to celebrating a birthday? I would just say it draws attention away from what we are at mass to do (I.e. participate in the divine mysteries) and instead focuses on an individual person. It’s the same idea as the Priest calling a choir member up to the front for applause, something I have also seen happen. Mass is not the place to celebrate personal accomplishments or milestones. Save it for the fellowship hall afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/82 "2019-01-07T02:52:19Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > The Catholic view of marriage is very very strange, they really never know if their marriage is valid or not, a marriage tribunal would have to decide. _shrug_ You get used to it. They’ve had loads of time making it more complex. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But EscAlaMike, if everyone started doing mass in Latin, wouldn’t the guy who sings “happy birthday” keep doing it, just tuck it in between Latin prayers? We do it during announcements, after Communion. > [@](#): > > I think you are enjoying the Latin Mass near you specifically because it’s an unusual collection of people looking for a more traditional experience, and they express that in language as well as in other ways. My older brother married a Siberian woman and they went Russian Rite, him because even the Latin Massers were too progressive and her to have people who speak her language. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/83 "2019-01-08T09:21:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yeah, the definition of adultery has been stretched over the millenia. True enough. Maybe I was brought up real sheltered, but my first definition of “adultery” was sexual relations between partners who are not married to one another. Even if neither one of the participants in the sexual relations had ever been married (which, istm, does violence to the meaning of the term that spawned the name of the “sin”). ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/84 "2019-01-08T17:19:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yeah, the definition of adultery has been stretched over the millenia. Yes it has, starting with Jesus’ “stretching” of the definition. [Matthew 5:27-28](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A27-28&version=NRSVCE) ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/85 "2019-01-08T17:21:31Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > The Catholic view of marriage is very very strange Or - the Catholic view is normative while the rest of the world’s view descends into chaos and confusion - depending on one’s perspective of course. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/86 "2019-01-08T19:20:46Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Or - the Catholic view is normative while the rest of the world’s view descends into chaos and confusion - depending on one’s perspective of course. No offense intended, friend, but you were born to be Catholic! Like how my brother was born to be Eastern Rite and my wife, originally Methodist, was a born Lutheran (“Full Bible but not crazy about it”). You found a home and you embraced it fully and want to spread the Word. I, an Evangelical Lutheran because they are insanely tolerant/hopeful, admire people who can do that, unlike my father who said of enthusiastic converts, “There’s nothing worse than a reformed whore.” 😃 No, really, God (or whoever) bless you, and I’m cool with your beliefs as long as you don’t call for the return of Torquemada. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/87 "2019-01-08T19:41:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > No offense intended, friend, but you were born to be Catholic! None taken, and I appreciate your perspective. May God bless you as well. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/88 "2019-01-08T20:11:00Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > No, of course things were not all sunshine and roses before V2. > > As for public adultery, I guess fornication would have been more appropriate. The two specific examples from my experience are a man living in a publicly homosexual “marriage” (maybe they are celibate :rolleyes:), and a young unmarried cohabitating couple who are obviously not celibate as they had a child together. This woman was also incidentally a CCD teacher for one of my children. These things might be tolerable if it were just me, but I want better for my children. > > This priest definitely sings happy birthday at mass. I understand that lots of parishes have adopted the practice of incorporating the services of a “cantor” in the Mass. The priest should really leave the "Happy Birthday"s to him. And they should try using the Happy Birthday songs that the restaurants use, just in case the Supreme Court reverses the outcome of the Hill sisters’ version. Not that Warner Chappell Music Inc, is likely to initiate a lawsuit against the RCC, but, it would be a little unseemly to defy that copyright after rolling over and submitting to F.E.L. over the mimeographed song sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958/89 "2019-01-14T02:02:31Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “public adultery” , He means “living in sin”. > [@doreen](#): > > The only thing I meant was that maybe you meant something more like “traditional” or “conservative” when you referred to “reverence” and “theological ignorance”. I think he meant _judgementalism_ and _guilt_. > [@](#): > > Assumptions can be wrong- maybe that homosexual couple is celibate. And maybe the couple with the baby got married last month and didn’t feel the need to inform you. And maybe it’s none of his business if they are banging each other silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin-in-catholic-services-making-a-comeback/826958.md?page=4)