# latin **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923 "2003-04-06T21:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/1 "2003-04-06T21:42:39Z")
what’s the difference between classical latin and medieval latin? ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/2 "2003-04-06T22:48:35Z")
the same as the difference between English now and, say, Medieval English. Languages evolve over time - picking up new words, losing old ones etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/3 "2003-04-06T22:52:05Z")
As with any language that is used by people, Latin changed over the centuries. The principal changes among the people, themselves, were changes in pronunciation (the **c** = /k/ sound becoming a /ch/ sound before **i** or **e** , a shift in some dipthongs where **ae** went from rhyming with pie to rhyming with pay, and a loss of the final [s] sound in many words so that the Latin _corvus_ became the Italian _corvo_. Along with those changes, of course, were _some_ changes in grammar, usually simplifying, while new words were imported from foreign languages or coined for new meaningns (Christian theology, for example). To learn specific changes, you would first need to identify the century (since the language continued to change until it metamorphed into proto-Italian, -French, -Spanish, etc.) Generally, if one understands one version of Latin, the other version is understandable, for the most part. Just as we can read Shakespeare and the King James Bible from 400 years ago, although some constructions have changed. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/4 "2003-04-06T23:36:02Z")
There is a very brief description of this in the original, classic, film version of **Goodbye Mr. Chips**. Chippings (Mr. Chips) is considered something of a trouble-maker because he persists in teaching his students the more modern pronunciation in his Latin classes, despite the then-current trend to emphasize classical pronunciation. He tells the headmaster he thinks it’s ridiculous to teach boys to say “Kickero” when they are going to hear people say “Sissero” for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/5 "2003-04-07T10:07:08Z")
[http://www.orbilat.com/Latin/index.html](http://www.orbilat.com/Latin/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/6 "2003-04-07T12:17:27Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/7 "2003-04-07T12:50:08Z")
a woodchuck would chuck as much wood as he could chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood 🙂 I really like this one…: Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre? here’s a link to funny lating phrases and translations of them: [http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/d/r/dryfoo/www/Funny-pages/handy-latin.html](http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/d/r/dryfoo/www/Funny-pages/handy-latin.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/8 "2003-04-07T13:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > \*\*There is a very brief description of this in the original, classic, film version of **Goodbye Mr. Chips**. Chippings (Mr. Chips) is considered something of a trouble-maker because he persists in teaching his students the more modern pronunciation in his Latin classes, despite the then-current trend to emphasize classical pronunciation. He tells the headmaster he thinks it’s ridiculous to teach boys to say “Kickero” when they are going to hear people say “Sissero” for the rest of their lives. \*\* At the risk of turning this into a GD, such a professor would be hurting the education of his students. Learning the correct phonetic values of Latin can greatly aid in learning why certain irregular verbs work the way they do, how later forms of Latin evolved from earlier ones, and how Latin imports from other languages. Learning correct pronunciation is even more important in Greek, as there is a great deal of contraction which makes no sense unless you understand the phonetics of the language. If a teacher is teaching a high-school Latin class meant to help students improve their SAT scores, I guess pronunciation isn’t a big deal. But in a university-level course, where the professor is creating the classics scholars of tomorrow, ignoring correct pronunciation is very bad indeed. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/9 "2003-04-07T22:07:00Z")
Another reason for knowing classical v. medieval or ecclesiastical pronunciations is the connection of Latin to other language. Classical Latin is closer to classical Greek in pronunciations. Classical Latin is also retained in Germanic languages while the later medieval/ecclesiastical pronunciations influence modern Romance languages. E.g., ‘Caesar’ in classical is pronounced KEYE-sahr, as in German’s, ‘Kaiser’ (as in Kaiser Wilhelm). ## Pax Semper ubi sub ubi. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/10 "2003-04-08T00:49:56Z")
Arabic also preserved the Classical Latin pronunciation like that. For example, the constellation Centaurus, from Latin, is called _Qintûrus_ in Arabic. We have a trace of this in English. The foot of the Centaur is the star Alpha Centauri, one of the closest stars to Earth, and its Arabic name is _Rijl Qintûrus_, literally ‘the centaur’s foot’. Its alternative name in English is Rigel Kent, an abbreviation of the Arabic name. One more example of Latin C becoming K before E. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latin/166923/11 "2003-04-08T05:12:30Z")
Another difference I noticed between classical Latin and medieval Latin is that words only implied in classical Latin are sometimes given in medieval Latin, which reduces uncertainty in meaning (and makes high school Latin students grateful).