# Latinists: How do you pronounce "Principia"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505 "2008-05-08T00:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/1 "2008-05-08T00:41:15Z")
As in Newton’s “Principia Mathematica”? is the “ci” a “ch” sound, or a “se” sound? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/2 "2008-05-08T00:59:36Z")
In latin the “c” is our “k”. Prin-KIP-ee-yah. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/3 "2008-05-08T01:26:36Z")
I’ve always been taught Italianite Latin pronunciation. So a soft C when followed by an I: Prin-chip-ee-ah ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/4 "2008-05-08T01:41:07Z")
And while I was taught the classical pronunciation of Latin, in my studies of Newton, we always referred to the work as ‘prin-s-ipia’. It sounds more natural in the context of other English words, I think. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/5 "2008-05-08T02:08:07Z")
How would Newton have pronounced it? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/6 "2008-05-08T02:25:08Z")
Caesar would have said PrinKipia. (Here and below the midword capital letter renders the sound of the “c” at that point.) If you’re discussing Newton with the Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, or singing Handel’s long-lost musical setting of Newton’s Principia, use the Church Latin PrinCHipia. But in normal English conversation, the title has been more or less assimilated, and would follow English-language pronunciation rules and say PrinSipia, just like Latin _PrinKipalis_ has become English prinbSipal. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/7 "2008-05-08T02:41:35Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] But in normal English conversation, the title has been more or less assimilated, and would follow English-language pronunciation rules and say PrinSipia, just like Latin _PrinKipalis_ has become English prinbSipal. [/QUOTE] Is this definitely the case? I’ve only heard it with the hard “k” pronunciation. Then again, I’ve only heard the text referred to in college courses, and there may be an “elite” pronunciation that was only used in that setting. It’s not often the Principia comes up in casual conversation. edit: Well, to answer my own question, it seems “principium” is pronounced with a soft “c”, so I guess that is the predominant pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/8 "2008-05-08T04:03:10Z")
I’ve also always heard it with the hard c or k pronunciation, hence my answer. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/9 "2008-05-08T04:44:32Z")
I also was taught to pronounce it /k/. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/10 "2008-05-08T05:00:38Z")
As an adept Latinist Newton would probably have pronounced it with the k, but it’s not certain as even then there was debate about the ‘correct’ pronunciation, as witness Pope’s lines of a few decades later: \*Disputes of Me or Te , of aut or at, To sound or sink in cano , O or A, Or give up Cicero to C or K. \* Dunciad, IV, 220-222 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/11 "2008-05-08T10:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Caesar would have said PrinKipia. (Here and below the midword capital letter renders the sound of the “c” at that point.) [/QUOTE] Out of interest, would he also have said “Kee-zar”? (Or “Kay-zar”?) Edit - oh yeah, that would be like “Kaiser”, right? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/12 "2008-05-08T13:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Out of interest, would he also have said “Kee-zar”? (Or “Kay-zar”?) Edit - oh yeah, that would be like “Kaiser”, right? :smack: [/QUOTE] Except that the “s” is always “soft” like s, not “hard” like z. You-lee-us Keye-sar. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/13 "2008-05-08T13:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Out of interest, would he also have said “Kee-zar”? (Or “Kay-zar”?) Edit - oh yeah, that would be like “Kaiser”, right? :smack: [/QUOTE] And this belongs in the “Ridiculously Obvious Stuff You Just Got” thread, yesno? ---
**Author:** ![Crescend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Crescend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crescend)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/14 "2008-05-08T14:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Out of interest, would he also have said “Kee-zar”? (Or “Kay-zar”?) Edit - oh yeah, that would be like “Kaiser”, right? :smack: [/QUOTE] We call’em ‘Tsar’ in these here parts! No, really, “Caesar” in Russian is “Цезарь” (_Tsezar’_). Apparently, that was a bit too long, so they shortened it. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/15 "2008-05-08T14:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] I’ve always been taught Italianite Latin pronunciation. So a soft C when followed by an I: Prin-chip-ee-ah [/QUOTE] Saying it that way makes me sound like Sean Connery. I do the classical hard /k/ sound. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/16 "2008-05-08T16:44:56Z")
Hard /k/ is always the way I’ve heard it. But I’m always amused at how much argument there is over Latin pronunciation, particularly for terms that have been appropriated wholly into English from Latin. Does anyone here, for example, have a problem pronouncing _et cetera_ as if the _c_ were _s_? In short, appealing to Latin pronunciation standards is irrelevant here, since like _et cetera_ the title of Newton’s work has been pretty much absorbed into English. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/17 "2008-05-08T17:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=CJJ\*] In short, appealing to Latin pronunciation standards is irrelevant here, since like _et cetera_ the title of Newton’s work has been pretty much absorbed into English. [/QUOTE] By whom, exactly, if so many of us have heard it pronounced only in the Latin way? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/18 "2008-05-08T18:01:54Z")
I’m having difficult remembering just who it is I knew who did this, but definitely some erudite figure of my acquaintance pronounced it as an /h/; “prin-hip-ee-yuh”. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/19 "2008-05-09T01:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How would Newton have pronounced it? [/QUOTE] Well, he was British so “Throatwarbler Mangrove”. Sorry. Somebody had to do it. FWIW my science teachers always pronounced it with a hard “k” (Prin-kip-ee-ah). ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505/20 "2008-05-09T05:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **CJJ** > Hard /k/ is always the way I’ve heard it. But I’m always amused at how much argument there is over Latin pronunciation, particularly for terms that have been appropriated wholly into English from Latin. Does anyone here, for example, have a problem pronouncing et cetera as if the c were s? Not to mention that so many pronounce it as ex-setera. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/latinists-how-do-you-pronounce-principia/448505.md?page=2)