# Laughing While Black? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894 "2015-08-25T22:33:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/81 "2015-08-27T18:12:26Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Those are professional tastings, where judges need to make a, well, judgment, and thus must stay sober. This is people sampling a product in the hopes that they’ll like it enough to purchase, like at a winery. Thus, they drink. No, not professional at all. I mean, _I_ took part in them, so very much amateur (and **very** boring). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/82 "2015-08-27T18:14:01Z")
Women who are [ul][li]Large-breasted,[/li][li]At least partially inebriated, and[/li][li]Who swallow.[/ul]Why on earth would you want them off the train?[/li] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/83 "2015-08-27T18:43:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s lacking here, is any insight into how the folks in charge tried to de-escalate the situation before throwing the women off the train. Without knowing that, I don’t see how you can say they were being too loud. If a bunch of people complained, and the first act was to throw them off the train, then that’s just stupid. > > But I’m still sticking with me original thoughts here. It’s called a “Wine Train”, not a “Fine Dining Train”, and anyone getting on it who doesn’t realize it’s a bar on wheels is being naive. You shouldn’t expect it to be much different from any of the tasting rooms you’ll be visiting. Why would you? It’s all the same people. Just to point out (since it appears you have not taken the trip) that it is called ‘The Wine Train’ because it traverses one of the finest wine grape/viticulture areas of the U.S. , not because it’s a rolling ‘tasting room’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/84 "2015-08-27T19:20:11Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > Just to point out (since it appears you have not taken the trip) that it is called ‘The Wine Train’ because it traverses one of the finest wine grape/viticulture areas of the U.S. , not because it’s a rolling ‘tasting room’. Been there, done that several times. I know Napa like the back of my hand. [It’s a rolling tasting room/wine bar.](http://winetrain.com/train/our-wine/) You think they make money form taking you to Wineries? That’s no way to run a [Napa Valley] railroad! > [@](#): > > You will begin your journey with the Napa Valley Wine Train with a welcome taste of our Private Label wine (only for guests over the age of 21). Our Private Label wine is bottled by Raymond Vineyards from their Reserve Selection. The cornerstone of the Raymond portfolio, the Reserve Selection wines are exclusively from Napa Valley. Raymond Vineyards has developed elegant, powerful wines that are distinctly characteristic of the Napa Valley appellation and have earned the winery its enduring reputation for beautiful balance, elegance and finesse. The Reserve Selection wines are perennial wine list selections at America’s finest restaurants and are highly acclaimed by some of the nation’s most revered wine critics. > > If you are dining in our Champagne Vista Dome Car, you will start your trip with a glass of the day’s featured California sparkling wine. Bubbles are the perfect way to start your relaxing trip and toast to your journey in our elevated observation-style car. > > After your welcome taste of wine feel free to check out our award-winning wine list or order one of our Wine Flights. If you have brought a special bottle of wine from home, we encourage you to enjoy it on board. Corkage is $15 per 750ml bottle. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/85 "2015-08-27T19:57:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Women who are > [ul][li]Large-breasted,[/li][li]At least partially inebriated, and[/li][li]Who swallow.[/ul]Why on earth would you want them off the train?[/li] > Regards, > Shodan Because [ul][li]I value my peace and quiet more than their breasts, which they don’t want me being interested in anyway[_]Their inebriation pretty much guarantees I won’t get what I want, and[_]Whatever they swallow is not something I am going to be interested in either.[/ul][/li] I hope this makes everything clear. Panak likewise sends his regards. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/86 "2015-08-27T20:00:47Z")
[quote=“Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face, post:85, topic:728894”] Because [ul][li]I value my peace and quiet more than their breasts…[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] I think I see the problem right from the outset. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/87 "2015-08-27T20:18:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Been there, done that several times. I know Napa like the back of my hand. > > [It’s a rolling tasting room/wine bar.](http://winetrain.com/train/our-wine/) You think they make money form taking you to Wineries? That’s no way to run a [Napa Valley] railroad! I like wine & I like trains, but that particular experience doesn’t tempt me. Sounds like you’re paying a lot to drink overpriced generic wine–and paying even more if you bring your own. The ladies were probably sitting at a large table–a group that size has to speak up just to communicate with each other. If the others on the car were there for intimate _tête–à–têtes_, (or is that _têtes–à–tête_?) I’m sure they were miffed. The guys who run the train need to figure out how to handle both types of customer. TV coverage included commentary from an anonymous white chick with a pursed mouth that looked like a baboon’s asshole; of course she wanted to throw them off the train… ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/88 "2015-08-27T20:30:30Z")
_Everything_ in the 21st century USA has to do with race, even when it has nothing to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/89 "2015-08-27T21:45:38Z")
They need to have a car or two (however that days bookings end up) just for groups. That way the groups can have fun being loud amongst the other loud groups and the people out for a more intimate experience can be with like kind and enjoy a nice relatively quiet time. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/90 "2015-08-27T21:53:27Z")
Responsibility still falls to them to choose an appropriate venue. After all, they alone know they will get loud or raucous. If Frat boys can do it, so can a book club. The train had private cars that could be booked, as someone already pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/91 "2015-08-27T22:18:12Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > They need to have a car or two (however that days bookings end up) just for groups. That way the groups can have fun being loud amongst the other loud groups and the people out for a more intimate experience can be with like kind and enjoy a nice relatively quiet time. You can’t assume that just because you’re a “group” you’ll want to get noisy. I’m sure the train has lots of 11+ groups who keep up a good conversation at reasonable levels and would be aghast at having to share with such noisy selfish harridans as this group appears to be, just because they’re a “group”. There is no reason the Wine Train has to be flexible on the level of decorum they expect rfrom their guests. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/92 "2015-08-27T23:30:40Z")
The other thing to realize on the racial angle is that CA isn’t like the East Coast. We don’t have very many blacks here to begin with (percentage wise). And Napa Valley isn’t a place where you are likely to encounter many blacks. So you get this group of people who are loud, and if they are “your kind of people” maybe it doesn’t bother you too much. But when it’s “those other people”, and let’s face it “those other people” don’t really belong here in the first place, then it’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/93 "2015-08-28T00:51:22Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > You can’t assume that just because you’re a “group” you’ll want to get noisy. I’m sure the train has lots of 11+ groups who keep up a good conversation at reasonable levels and would be aghast at having to share with such noisy selfish harridans as this group appears to be, just because they’re a “group”. There is no reason the Wine Train has to be flexible on the level of decorum they expect rfrom their guests. “harridans”? (a book club?) “decorum”? (the locomotive runs on steam?) Perhaps the Wine Train ought to publish a stringent set of rules to discourage the wrong sort. Or, if they wish to remain in business, they can figure out how to deal with both lively groups & those whose hobby is rectal transport of steel rods. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/94 "2015-08-28T01:24:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OMG. Just look at these [hooligans](http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/Wine-train-issues-apology-to-black-women-booted-from-train-322872181.html?tab=video&mobile=y). Especially that scary looking one on the left! No wonder they were kicked off. what are the odds her name is Elizabeth. If I showed pictures of every jackass who yelled at the top of their lungs in a bar you’d be hard pressed to pick them out of a lineup. Of course the same applies to women who suddenly decide the bar is clothing optional. usually they’re the same people, for the same reason. They’re drunk. If women want to get quietly naked I’m a very tolerant person. Not so much with the loud noise. Better to be seen than heard. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/95 "2015-08-28T01:32:01Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > “harridans”? (a book club?) > > “decorum”? (the locomotive runs on steam?) > > Perhaps the Wine Train ought to publish a stringent set of rules to discourage the wrong sort. Or, if they wish to remain in business, they can figure out how to deal with both lively groups & those whose hobby is rectal transport of steel rods. So as long as alcohol is involved you’re good with any loud behavior? Sounds like a business plan. You should invest. Start with an airline. All those poor souls getting kicked off planes are a ready made clientele. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/96 "2015-08-28T06:29:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This has been a hot topic here, locally. I’ve been on this sort of trip before, and you have to realize that it’s essentially a bar on rails People are drinking. And People get loud when they’re drinking. If a group wouldn’t be kicked out of a bar, they shouldn’t be kicked off the Wine Train. It doesn’t seem like these women were doing anything that would get them kicked out of a bar. A wine tasting isn’t supposed to be akin to a fraternity party. Unless things have changed quite radically, a typical pour in a wine tasting is about an inch of wine in a medium sized Chardonnay glass. This makes it possible to sample numerous wines without getting totally plastered. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/97 "2015-08-28T10:04:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > You can’t assume that just because you’re a “group” you’ll want to get noisy. I’m sure the train has lots of 11+ groups who keep up a good conversation at reasonable levels and would be aghast at having to share with such noisy selfish harridans as this group appears to be, just because they’re a “group”. There is no reason the Wine Train has to be flexible on the level of decorum they expect rfrom their guests. Again, not being there, we don’t know how this group compared to other groups. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/98 "2015-08-28T11:07:42Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > A wine tasting isn’t supposed to be akin to a fraternity party. Unless things have changed quite radically, a typical pour in a wine tasting is about an inch of wine in a medium sized Chardonnay glass. This makes it possible to sample numerous wines without getting totally plastered. We go to the Seven Springs Wine Tasting most falls. You get an inch of wine. Over and over. Dozens of wineries each offering tastes of dozens of wine. Do the math. One year we ended up racing on the Alpine Slide. I wrecked and was one giant brush burn. The first aid people must have gone through a gallon of bactine before sending me back to tasting. ETA: [http://www.7springs.com/events/wine-festival/](http://www.7springs.com/events/wine-festival/) ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/99 "2015-08-28T11:14:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think I see the problem right from the outset. > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, the problem is that while I like breasts well enough I don’t go "OMG Bewbies! :eek: " and decide anything them chix wants is fine by me. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894/100 "2015-08-28T13:13:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So as long as alcohol is involved you’re good with any loud behavior? Sounds like a business plan. You should invest. Start with an airline. All those poor souls getting kicked off planes are a ready made clientele. I don’t think prosperous members of a book club compare with returning spring breakers drunk on bad tequila. The train ought to have ways to entertain\* both\* sorts of people. The people who run the train [seem to agree](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/25/us/napa-wine-train-laughing-while-black-feat/). > [@](#): > > The top executive of Napa Valley Wine Train apologized to members of a book club who said they were humiliated when staff booted them from the luxury rail car for disturbing passengers with their laughter. > > “The Napa Valley Wine Train was 100% wrong in its handling of this issue,” CEO Anthony Giaccio said in a statement. “We accept full responsibility for our failures and for the chain of events that led to this regrettable treatment of our guests.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/laughing-while-black/728894.md?page=6)