# LAURYN HILL: "YOU GO GIRL!" or "THAT'S JUST TACKY!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344 "2003-12-16T17:25:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/21 "2003-12-17T04:54:53Z")
**Sampiro** , it just reeks of discourtesy and rudeness. It’s not about comfort and shelter for the hypocrites, it’s about what’s appropriate for the venue. The venue was a Christmas concert at the Vatican. I’m assuming that the Church hierarchy weren’t the only ones there, as it was being filmed for Italian television. If, in a later audience with the Pope, Ms. Hill felt the need to make a comment on the coverups, then fine. But she hijacked a completely unrelated event, cost a film crew an undetermined waste of time and money (besides the time she wasted on her rant and the inappropriate song, they have to edit her “performance” out for the telecast), and, I’m sorry for being old-fashioned, was rude to the people hosting her. She was invited to sing for a Christmas concert. She was not invited to present her opinion on the state of the Church. She was not invited to present her ideas about the coverup of the child sexual abuse scandal. She was not invited to give a public denunciation of her hosts. Call me fussy and old-fashioned, but it was the classic definition of “RUDE”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/22 "2003-12-17T04:56:23Z")
And I have to say that Ms. Hill lost whatever good feeling and credibility she had before this for me. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/23 "2003-12-17T05:39:56Z")
It’s tacky if this is some ploy to generate some publicity, but if she was speaking her mind - surely these boys are big enough to take the criticism. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/24 "2003-12-17T06:45:38Z")
[Some background - She not exactly living in a hypocrisy free zone herself.](http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22LAURYN+HILL%22+lesbian&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=7kp095%24l5e%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4) [sub] > [@](#): > > Hill is young black womanhood writ large. She’s only 23, but her sultry alto, enormous talent and furious drive have made her the female artist of her generation. Her debut solo album, “The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill,” won every award you can think of—ethnic, mainstream and international—and went triple platinum. “Miseducation,” which she single-handedly wrote and produced, is both a dead-on critique of negative behaviors in the black community and a love letter to it. An accomplished movie and TV actress, songwriter, producer and video director, Hill is firmly in control of her own career. > > And there’s more. On leave from Columbia University, she’s also created the Refugee Project for inner-city kids in her spare time. She still lives with her revered parents in the New Jersey home she grew up in. A fervent Christian whose every utterance and song lyric proclaim her belief in God, she simultaneously exudes New Age grooviness (“Cause karma, karma, karma comes back to you hard” goes one line of “Miseducation”) and old-time religion (“You can’t hold God’s people back that long” thunders the next). But Hill, the rhapsodic Christian proselytizer, is not everybody’s idea of a black female role model. For one thing, she often dresses hoochie-style. Worse, she has two out-of-wedlock children with her live-in boyfriend, Rohan Marley (one of Bob’s many children). Hill may embody the best of young black womanhood to some people, but to others she’s just a hypocrite, or worse, a danger to the community’s endangered morals with her hip-hop halo. > > The calls for her head crescendoed recently with the June 2 television broadcast of the Essence Awards. In a tearful acceptance speech, Hill said: “I want to let young people know that it is not a burden to love Him, and to represent Him, and to be who you are, as fly and as hot and as whatever, and to still love God and to serve Him. It’s not a contradiction.” Radio call-in shows, letter-to-the-editor pages and, especially, online > venues were deluged by the debate over Hill. Lee Bailey, founder and publisher of the Electronic Urban Report (EUR), said, “I was totally surprised by the outpouring. We received 300-400 e-mails before we stopped counting and it’s still coming in.” Indeed, the EUR ran a special section of the Hill e-mails. As one disgusted e-mailer wrote, “Lauryn’s lifestyle doesn’t match her sermons. If she’s gonna shack up (and in her parents’ home, no less) with her man and her two babies, that’s her business, but Lauryn’s crossing the line when she gets on every available TV screen talking about how ‘holy’ she is. God is not in that mess.” Another e-mailer wrote, “If Lauryn Hill weren’t famous, but instead worked the register at [McDonald’s], black folks would be the first people saying what a poor role model she is and how she needs to get her life together.” Still another fulminated: “If most of these people we ‘hero worship’ weren’t celebrities, we’d probably be dogging them for some of their lifestyle choices. It makes it difficult to explain the difference to my son.” Many e-mailers supported Hill, but it was the fulminators who grabbed the most attention. Clearly, some of Hill’s detractors are mere player-haters. “True,” Bailey says, “but she really has touched a nerve. The undercurrent has been there for some time.” [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/25 "2003-12-17T06:51:08Z")
Personally, I’m neutral on this. If, however, she throws a public tantrum or starts crying censorship just because her stunt doesn’t get met with blind adulation, then that will be tacky. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/26 "2003-12-17T11:54:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _From astro’s link_ > For one thing, she often dresses hoochie-style. Gasp! Get out the burqha! > [@](#): > > Worse, she has two out-of-wedlock children with her live-in boyfriend, Rohan Marley (one of Bob’s many children). Tramp! That means she had sex before marriage! So what’s Lauryn Hill’s crimes? Dressing in a way that makes the hard right gnash its teeth and having children with her de facto partner? What is this, the 1950s? Who wrote the screed? [Family.org](http://Family.org)? I find her constant proselytising worse than her awful, awful lifestyle. But still, that’s just annoying. I applaud for her making a stand. Sometimes you can’t avoid stepping on peoples toes if you want to get your message out. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/27 "2003-12-17T12:13:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*I applaud for her making a stand. Sometimes you can’t avoid stepping on peoples toes if you want to get your message out. \*\* I don’t disagree with the message. She’s right. The Church was hypocritical and deliberately blind in this situation. However, if someone that you have a moral problem with invites you to a Christmas party in their home, you have two choices. You can either decline because you don’t think you can, in good conscience, attend, or you can go and shut the hell up about the moral problem you have. To accept the invitation solely so you can slide in under the radar and deliver a public drubbing and unfavorable musical selection is in unbelievably bad taste. And people keep saying “They’re big boys, they can take it.” Is there any indication that the only folks there were Church hierarchy? No children? No parents? No nice inoffensive Vatican cleaning ladies and gardeners having a nice afternoon off to listen to Christmas music? She took a completely unrelated event and hijacked it for her own purposes. Rude, rude, rude, rude. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/28 "2003-12-17T12:46:22Z")
Another vote for rude and tacky. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/29 "2003-12-17T13:05:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*So, a woman cuts her hair, and that makes her a lesbian? \*\* Yes. Yes it does. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/30 "2003-12-17T13:32:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by jayjay_ > However, if someone that you have a moral problem with invites you to a Christmas party in their home, you have two choices. You can either decline because you don’t think you can, in good conscience, attend, or you can go and shut the hell up about the moral problem you have. To accept the invitation solely so you can slide in under the radar and deliver a public drubbing and unfavorable musical selection is in unbelievably bad taste. There’s a difference between a function in someone’s private home and a highly-publicised event involving an international organisation. If I don’t like Joe’s womanising, and I go to Joe’s Christmas party so I can tell all of Joe’s guests that he’s a an asshole, sure, I’m being rude. But the church’s actions have wide-reaching consequences, and this event would be reported in the media (unlike Joe’s Christmas party). The message (in her view, and perhaps in both of ours) was important to get out, and the medium chosen ensured that it would get out. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/31 "2003-12-17T13:37:12Z")
Her message is not new. It’s not in any danger of being suppressed. Anyone who isn’t already aware of the damage done by shuffling pedophile priests around hasn’t been anywhere near a news outlet of some kind in the past three years. All this was was a way for her to grab some publicity _for herself_ and to grind the Pope’s metaphorical nose in it. This is not some huge secret that nobody knew about except Ms. Hill. She’s no herald of truth. The pedophile priest scandal is old news. She’s no Scarlet Pimpernel rescuing the children of the world from the nasty old Church. She’s the attention whore who has to have a big public argument with her boyfriend at every office Christmas party, children’s birthday party, and intimate restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/32 "2003-12-17T13:42:14Z")
Okay, **gex gex** , think of this hypothetical. Let’s say that at Hillary Clinton’s inauguration in 2008 (:D), Barbra Streisand is invited to perform a piece she especially wrote for the occasion. On taking the stage, she presents a 15-minute diatribe in which she states that she hates Hillary’s guts for not standing up to Bill’s extramarital shenanigans and then performs a parody of “Stand By Your Man” with Hillary’s name prominently featured. Is this rude? ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/33 "2003-12-17T13:45:07Z")
(In the current double-named Doper debate, I must side with jayjay.) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/34 "2003-12-17T13:52:44Z")
jayjay- that would be SOOO tacky & rude, but I have to admit I would weep with joy _L_ Btw, I was gonna open a similar thread yesterday when I read the story but I didn’t. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/35 "2003-12-17T16:02:45Z")
Mixed feelings. Right message, iffy venue _under these specific circumstances_ – not so much wrong as maybe-not-worth-it. Because what could have seemed a foolproof _tactic_ to get her point put forward, results in the public discussing it, sure, but talking about _her conduct_, and her character, rather than about the issue. OTOH, if she is aware that her star is currently eclipsed, a “what have I got to lose” approach may be understandable – though probably misguided because as it is probably very few care what it is she has to say. At least she was explicit about what the heck it was she was protesting – Sinead’s picture-ripping just came out of freakin’ nowhere for too many people. Michael Moore is a different case, heckling the Bush administration virtually IS what he does for a living, and anyone with any sense could have expected his acceptance speech to include some of it. The Vatican officials richly deserve any mortification and embarrassment we can throw their way over the corruption in their ranks; but from what I have learned about them over time, the lasting impact of this one will probably be to screen future shows so they make sure to invite only reliably docile performers. ---
**Author:** ![BizarroRonJeremy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@BizarroRonJeremy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BizarroRonJeremy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/36 "2003-12-17T17:45:02Z")
All I know is that her unplugged concert was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. She played almost the entire show solo even though there was a full band (including a badly-needed drummer) waiting in the wings at her beck and call. Every song sounded the same and she has really no sense of rythm (even though I know it must be very hard to play a guitar and sing at the same time). Nevertheless, it was very hard to get into, and I almost fell asleep. At one point, after she finished a song, my obnoxious friend said, loud enough for most people sitting in the ten rows in front and back of us, “Man, could I use a coffee” He got some dirty looks, but for the most part, people chuckled obviously sharing the same sentiment. I went to see the concert as a favor to a friend. I ended up dishing out $50 bucks for my tick (the actual ticket price was a $100!) ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/37 "2003-12-17T22:53:26Z")
I’m glad you started this thread, **Sampiro**. I had contemplated starting one but didn’t follow through. Unfortunately, I think Lauryn Hill has gone off the deep end. I liked her with the Fugees and I loved _The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill_. I was excited to get _MTV Unplugged 2.0_ until I tried to listen to it. It was unlistenable (IMO) - not only was her voice out of shape but she rambled a lot about religious things, about people thinking she was crazy (gee, I wonder why) and the songs were a big departure from her usual style. I was saddened by her apparent loss of a grip on reality. I only like one song on that double CD, it truly is a shame - she is so much more talented than that. When I read about the Vatican stunt I wasn’t surprised. If she felt that strongly about the situation she shouldn’t have accepted the invitation. She could draw attention to this issue on her own merit. I think she is becoming a sad shadow of who she used to be. ---
**Author:** ![wait\_tom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c57346/32.png) [@wait\_tom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wait_tom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/38 "2003-12-18T05:55:23Z")
i didnt see her speech but i just want to clarify that the catholic church isn’t just hated for churning out pedophiles (though thats the reason nowadays) the history of the institution is full of corruption, their ideologies are bastardized versions of christ’s, and the jesuits control the world. much love for lauryn hill, we need more people speaking out on this shit and she couldnt have picked a better spot in terms of influence. its funny to think people are more concerned with the trivial shit like…whether or not she was rude to this institution that has been ruining peoples lives for centuries… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/39 "2003-12-18T13:05:37Z")
but you see, **wait tom** , the problem i sshe has _distracted_ from the message by making her “protest” in such a way that it only calls attention to _her_ character, and not to the institution. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344/40 "2003-12-18T15:04:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by jay jay_ > Okay, gex gex, think of this hypothetical. Let’s say that at Hillary Clinton’s inauguration in 2008 (:D), Barbra Streisand is invited to perform a piece she especially wrote for the occasion. On taking the stage, she presents a 15-minute diatribe in which she states that she hates Hillary’s guts for not standing up to Bill’s extramarital shenanigans and then performs a parody of “Stand By Your Man” with Hillary’s name prominently featured. Well… yeah… that’s be rude. I get what you mean, but I think it’s a matter of context. A presidential inauguration is different to a Christmas concert or an Oscar speech. They’ll have one next year, Ms Hill will be forgotten. But, yeah I get your point, and it does come close to rude. But sometimes rude is OK. Social graces sometimes have to give way to more important concerns. (And in your situation, I’d feel that Ms. Streisand should keep her nose out of other people’s private affairs - the church problems, however, are not private affairs.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lauryn-hill-you-go-girl-or-thats-just-tacky/219344.md?page=3)