# Law and Order: Criminal intent **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079 "2001-10-23T14:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/1 "2001-10-23T14:02:32Z")
Is it too early to say that it sucks bilgewater??? I’ve now seen 2 episodes, and I now hate Vincent D’nofrio. Anybody out there like it? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Blacksheepsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@Blacksheepsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blacksheepsmith)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/2 "2001-10-23T14:25:13Z")
The show is sludge. All they’ve done is mix the _Columbo_ formula (without Peter Falk, or the humor, both of which make that formula work) with the _Law & Order_ formula. The result is incredibly unsatisfying. Vincent D’Onofiro was terrific in _Full Metal Jacket_. He was very good in an episode (“The Subway”) of _Homicide_. He was even pretty decent in \*Adventures in Baby-Sitting \* (as Thor, the God of Thunder and Part-Time Car Mechanic), and he did his job and got paid in _Men in Black_. But he’s a cardboard cutout in this show. Just terrible. ---
**Author:** ![poohpah\_chalupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/91b2a8/32.png) [@poohpah\_chalupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poohpah_chalupa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/3 "2002-09-13T15:25:01Z")
[sub]…this is a little tardy, but better late than never…?[/sub] The only reason Mrs. Chalupa and I ever watch this dreck is to wait for the first moment of the show where D’Onofrio tilts his head like a puppy dog and spews forth with some totally unrealistic observation. This guy is a virtual fountain of information ranging from renaissance art to automotive repair to culinary expertise to ancient Greek history to quantum physics to just about anything else any group of academic scholars would be scrambling to find. Yep, just your normal police detective. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/4 "2002-09-13T16:04:31Z")
Mr. Tech and I call it _Law and Order: Svengali_. He almost always gets the criminal to confess! Do they even go to court on _CI_? Unrealistic observations are an understatement when it comes to his character. He’s an expert in _everything_, it seems. Oh, and hubby and I decided he’s always doing the head tilting thing because he’s so tall. Please don’t tell us otherwise, it’s what keeps us sane. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/5 "2002-09-13T16:10:45Z")
As much as I love Vincent D’Onofrio (and boy, do I), I have to agree that the focus on his character is what makes this program so inferior to the original L&O. What about Eames, huh? Why doesn’t she ever get the chance to contribute something meaningful to the investigation and – work with me here – solve the case? Except for that one time when she was held out like bait for the guy who killed petite women, she’s pretty much useless. I hope things improve for her during the next season. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/6 "2002-09-13T16:53:48Z")
While it’s not as good as the originial L&O, it is a hell of lot better than L&O: SVU. I really isn’t that believable, I mean how many people would know all this stuff? That being said, I still enjoy immensely. Vinent D’Onofrio has a slighty creepy insane vibe working for him with the character that makes him feel at least slighty unsettling and so fun to watch. I wouldn’t enjoy this show with another actor replacing him, and saying the same type of lines. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/7 "2002-09-13T17:11:30Z")
agree on Criminal Intent. and I’m such an L & O junkie that I tape the re-runs. I like SVU. They’ve deviated from the usual formula (focus on the crime du jour) to add an investment into the personal characteristics and quirks of the folks in the station, and that, I think helps it work. (for the record, I absolutely **hated** the season they tried to interject ‘home life’ on the original L & O \>\> Lennie on street talking to suspect, Ray’s phone rings, he walks off to take the call, then Lennie comes over and Ray says “oh, by the way, my wife has MS” - ok so that wasn’t a direct quote, sue me- bah.) ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/8 "2002-09-14T03:57:55Z")
I didn’t like it much at first, but watched a few episodes. After that, the “know everything” characterization really grew on me. What role did Vincent D’Onofrio play in Full Metal Jacket? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/9 "2002-09-14T04:09:15Z")
He played Private Pyle, the big Baby Huey screw-up who killed the drill sergeant. I love this show! I would like to see Eames do something more substantial; Unlike Goren, she was raised in cop culture and should be the one to have an edge next time the suspect is a police officer. Also, doesn’t she outrank him? That’s gotta hurt. Jamey Sheridan might as well not be there. Courtney Vance’s character is pretty cool, though. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/10 "2002-09-14T16:09:38Z")
I just think of the show as Law and Order: Pulp. Goran isn’t really any less believable than, say, Clark Savage, Sherlock Holmes or Alan Quartermain. I enjoy the kind of unreality that his observations and _snicker_ lines of reasoning bring to the show. I agree with **Krokodil**. Courtney Vance needs to get an upgrade to L&O: Prime, where he could actually do an occasional courtroom sequence. Jack McCoy’s probably just about played out story-wise, isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/11 "2002-09-14T17:03:38Z")
Courtney Vance can’t appear on _Law & Order_ (prime). In that universe, he’s doing 25-to-life for murder. D’Onofrio pulling knowledge out of his ass does get tedious. I’m waiting for the episode where his insights on ancient Babylonian toenail cutting rituals helps break the case. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/12 "2002-09-14T17:10:15Z")
oh don’t be silly **Bryan** on L & O prime, Lennie was once a defense attorney, I doubt he went from that to a beat cop (while maintaining his same age), not to mention Camryn Meinham who went from doing time for murder in an abortion clinic (when she was slim) to being a defense attorney who could sign, to being a layabout no good foster mother. OF course, she has a happy ending - she’s now practicing law in Boston. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/13 "2002-09-14T17:10:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Courtney Vance can’t appear on _Law & Order_ (prime). In that universe, he’s doing 25-to-life for murder. > \*\* That’s not insurmountable. Didn’t Dennis Franz first appear on Hill St. Blues as a bad guy? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/14 "2002-09-14T18:49:51Z")
I watched a few minutes of CI last night. Goren’s magical insight was kind of fun to watch, but I imagine that’d get awfully irritating over the course of a whole show. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/15 "2002-09-14T20:28:50Z")
I know, I know, I was being facetious. Yeesh! The [_Law and Order_ Repeat Offenders File](http://members.tripod.com/~MindHarp/lorepeat.html) lists actors who have appeared in multiple roles. Speaking of Camryn Manheim, she was on at least 3 times, but another interesting tid-bit is the number of principal _The Practice_ actors who have appeared. Manheim is the only one who ever played a lawyer. The others were criminals or suspected criminals. Michael Badalucco: Confessed to murder and assault, later cleared. Lisa Gay Hamilton: Hired a hitman to whack her husband, then whacked the hit-man. Steve Harris: Twice, as a convict and then as an extortionist. Kelli Williams: Petty criminal and drug user. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/16 "2002-09-14T21:06:18Z")
The show sucks. They put the Law & Order name on any crappy cop show and we watch it. We’re suckers. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/17 "2002-09-14T21:57:49Z")
I am SO happy I’m not the only one who hates Goran. Really. Vincent D’nofrio’s over-acting ass needs to be replaced or SOMETHING. I don’t really like CI. They only provide three minutes worth of the criminal’s perspective, and all the rest of the hour goes to the investigators. Excuse me, but how does this really differ from regular L&O? Do they really need a third carnation of L&O if we only get to see the criminal goings-on for three minutes? We always know when Goran’s about to “trap” the criminal when he tilts his head and the suspenseful music cues up. It’s getting so painful to watch that I always turn the channel during those times. I’ve gotten used to SVU. It was slow going at first, but there’s no annoying Goran-like character who steals all the camera time. And they’ve done a good job of making the women characters essential. In CI, Eames just sits there and looks pretty. They might as well replace her with a male; as it stands right now she’s just an ineffective token. I second the notion that Courtney’s character needs more screen time. They have him the credits. Why don’t they use him? ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/18 "2002-09-30T17:24:48Z")
Does anyone know where I could write to the writers of this show? I want to complain that it really kills all the suspense/drive of the show when Goren can solve every case on his own just by whipping out some obscure fact out of his head which instantly puts all the pieces together. Take last night’s episode. Why why why did Goren have to know that Bible verse just off the top of his head? The writers could have shown him looking the verse up in a Bible – hell, it’s more plausible that a guy like him would keep a Bible in his desk for reference than would have obscure lines from Genesis memorized. (Granted, it wasn’t that important a clue to the story, but it still was incredible.) I mean, this is like why it’s no fun to play Doom with God mode on. There’s no challenge. And for the love of God, let Eames do something! As useless as she is, you’d think the producers would want to save money and make her the cop show equivalent of Maris Crane. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/19 "2002-09-30T18:50:24Z")
Until I read **monstro** ’s post, I’d totally forgotten that the original premise of the show was that we would see things from the criminal’s point of view. I’ve already come to think of it as “Sherlock Holmes in New York.” If not for the name, you’d never guess it was a Law and Order spin-off. Haven’t there been crossover episodes between L&O and L&O: SVU? I just can’t picture Goran blending in with Stabler, Briscoe, and the rest, though I’m having fun picturing all of them together, hanging out in a bar. Goran: The waitress forgot our chicken wings [cocks head] because she was raised on a chicken farm and has a deep-seated hatred of poultry. All the other detectives: [groan] ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079/20 "2002-10-01T07:30:23Z")
Brisko and Green and Van Buren have all appeared on CI, on different episodes. I don’t remember any obvious crossovers between SVU and CI. And I like Goran. 21st century Sherlock Holmes. And I figure he probably has a full blown photographic memory. He glances at something, he has it memorized. But I do wish they would do some courtroom shows. SVU does is on occasion, and it is a nice change of pace. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/law-and-order-criminal-intent/89079.md?page=2)