# Lawrence Russell Brewer Dead
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 22, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158 "2011-09-22T04:33:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/101 "2011-09-22T19:00:02Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#):
>
> If they did, would you still be in favour of them?
>
> Completely unlike the Americans, who hang around watching Europe killing off half our population, turn ships full of refugees back to die, wait for the last possible moment and then swing into action and spend the next 50 years making war movies starring the US Army as brave noble liberators telling everyone how much better and more moral you are? đ
So let me get this straight. Youâre against the death penalty because killing others, even vile monsters, is always wrong. Because when one person kills another, âit devalues us all.â But you also want to criticize mid-20th century Americans for hanging around watching Europeans killing Europeans and not âswinging into actionâ earlier.
How exactly, pray tell, would you have the Americans convince the Europeans to stop killing each other? Begging really hard? Holding their breath and stomping around until Europe stopped? Bribing them with chocolates?
Or can you think of a more direct, effective method?
---
### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/102 "2011-09-22T19:13:14Z")
> [@Hbns](#):
>
> He isnât asking shit. He is being a sanctimonious prick.
Truth hurts does it? If you judge yourself by the company you keep then what are we to think when we see your fellow death penalty bedfellows?
> [@](#):
>
> Minnesota abolished capital punishment 58 years before Great Britain saw the light.
andâŚyour point is? that someone has to lead the way and others lag behind? if so, I agree. Who is lagging behind now?
And sanctimonious? Iâm full of criticism for the failings of my own country. Our libel laws for one are a disgrace. If this thread were on that subject youâd find me lauding your own system, how about that eh?
I know it is none of my business, but I work in the USA and with its citizens all the time and my posting here is a way of expressing my astonishment. Hey, do what you want but I think you, as a country can be better than that.
> [@](#):
>
> He is making a sweeping pronouncement about American penal code and health care access based upon the worst of the worst.
No, not the âworst of the worstâ at all. You donât have universal healthcare and many in your population suffer because of it, you have the death penalty in 37 out 50 states, you have 5% of the world population and 25% of the prison population. Iâm not cherry picking here, those are the bald facts. You have some serious issues in those areas.
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### Author:  [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/103 "2011-09-22T19:37:16Z")
> [@papergirl](#):
>
> \*If I were the family of the man murdered by this guy, though, I might very well dance on his grave, and who could blame them?
Just so we are clear here. The family of the man murdered, James Byrd Jr. have spoken out repeatedly against the death penalty in this case. The family did not want to see Brewer killed.
---
### Author:  [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/104 "2011-09-22T19:50:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> No, not the âworst of the worstâ at all. You donât have universal healthcare and many in your population suffer because of it, you have the death penalty in 37 out 50 states, you have 5% of the world population and 25% of the prison population. Iâm not cherry picking here, those are the bald facts. You have some serious issues in those areas.
You just donât get that it is not America of the united states. Universal healthcare and national edicts arenât what this country is about. First and foremost I am a Minnesotan. Damn proud that my state saw the light on capital punishment more than half a century before merry old England. Damn proud that we have long had and continue to have some of the best access to healthcare in the country.
The US prison system as a whole is completely out of whack, but be careful where you are slinging those stones.
> [@](#):
>
> England and Wales lock up more prisoners per head of population than other countries in western Europe apart from Spain (160) and Luxembourg (155) and some 60 per cent more than countries such as Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and Italy.
[World Prison Population List (8th edition)](http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/news.php?id=203)
Apologies to all for creating a debate in a pit thread. :smack:
Fuck fuck fuck. Fuck capital punishment. đ
---
### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/105 "2011-09-22T19:59:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> I am glad you got such enjoyment from a persons death. Congratulations.
Little Curtis has to find his pleasure in way he doesnât feel are sinful.
---
### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/106 "2011-09-22T20:11:05Z")
> [@Hbns](#):
>
> The US prison system as a whole is completely out of whack, but be careful where you are slinging those stones.
>
> [World Prison Population List (8th edition)](http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/news.php?id=203)âŚ
> [@](#):
>
> England and Wales lock up more prisoners per head of population than other countries in western Europe apart from Spain (160) and Luxembourg (155) and some 60 per cent more than countries such as Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and Italy.
Yeah, and? They still have a hell of a lot of catching-up to do. From your own link:
> [@](#):
>
> **The United Statesâ prison total constitutes a rate of 756 per 100,000 of the national population, making it pro rata by far the biggest user of prison in the world.**
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/107 "2011-09-22T20:14:54Z")
I just saw the words âRussellâ and âDeadâ and my mind filled in the blank with âBrand.â And for a moment, I feltâŚnot _happy_, but _relieved._
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### Author:  [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/108 "2011-09-22T20:17:26Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#):
>
> Little Curtis has to find his pleasure in way he doesnât feel are sinful.
Anybody wonder if/how Curtis/Qinâs posting style is gonna change once he discovers masturbation? (Besides the obvious change of increased typos while he gets used to a braille keyboard after God smites him blind for it.)
---
### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/109 "2011-09-22T20:19:58Z")
> [@Hbns](#):
>
> You just donât get that it is not America of the united states. Universal healthcare and national edicts arenât what this country is about. First and foremost I am a Minnesotan. Damn proud that my state saw the light on capital punishment more than half a century before merry old England. Damn proud that we have long had and continue to have some of the best access to healthcare in the country.
Either the USA does or does not allow executions, which is it? As a US citizen you can be tried, convicted and executed within your national borders.
Iâm leaving the healthcare debate as that is a full derail in itself, but suffice to say that unless the Minnesotan system is substantially different from the rest of the country then it suffers in comparison to most other developed nations.
> [@](#):
>
> The US prison system as a whole is completely out of whack, but be careful where you are slinging those stones.
>
> [World Prison Population List (8th edition)](http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/news.php?id=203)
Does having a less than perfect incarceration figures mean I cannot point out the significantly worse ones in the USA?
Does having a slightly flat tyre on my car mean I canât tell you your wheels have fallen off?
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### Author:  [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/110 "2011-09-22T20:42:53Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#):
>
> Either the USA does or does not allow executions, which is it? As a US citizen you can be tried, convicted and executed within your national borders.
Yes, for me that has been true since 1988. âš
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### Author:  [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/111 "2011-09-22T20:56:18Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#):
>
> On the one hand, of the nine eye witnesses, seven now say he didnât commit the murder. And there is no forensic evidence linking him to the crime.
>
> On the other hand, thereâs an opinion piece written by Ann Coulter.
>
> Better tree the coon. :rolleyes:
You should quit believing what the media decides to tell you.
> [@SecondJudith](#):
>
> There is no such thing. There just isnât. A human is a human. There is no act or thought that can take away a personâs humanity. When you devalue human life you devalue all of us, and yourself. Cripes, this is basic primary-level humanity. One feels mournful at the transgressions, and mournful at the deaths.
>
> âI take no pleasure in the death of they who die; but turn, and live.â
>
> Fuck your gleeful Christian bloodthirstiness.
I am not a Christian - what are you going to blame for my delight that this person was executed? And, FTR, the rest of your post is too over the top and full of holes to respond to.
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> BOO for capital punishment! It is wrong, always and everywhere (coulda sworn Iâve already briefed you on that fact, **Qin**. What gives?). Justice would have had that scum rotting away in solitary confinement for as long as it took him to die of natural causes.
Why should the rest of society have to pay for the highly illegal and immoral acts of others?
> [@SecondJudith](#):
>
> Completely unlike the Americans, who hang around watching Europe killing off half our population, turn ships full of refugees back to die, wait for the last possible moment and then swing into action and spend the next 50 years making war movies starring the US Army as brave noble liberators telling everyone how much better and more moral you are? đ
So, your problems have to be our problems now? You canât be happy someone did something, you gotta bitch that it wasnât soon enough or good enough or whatever the hell your problem is?
---
### Author:  [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/112 "2011-09-22T21:07:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#):
>
> Yeah, but justice isnât what we get in the absence of capital punishment in this country. Instead, killers get three squares, TV, books, chess, checkers and weights and visits with family and loved ones. And probably prison jobs to pay for candy bars and shit.
>
> And then if past history is any indication, as soon as we get liberal dominance of the Supreme Court, life without parole, even with all those goodies, may very well be deemed âcruel and unusual punishmentâ and before long weâll be back to paroles and convicted murderers serving an average of 14 years behind bars.
>
> The death penalty is the only way in this country to be absolutely sure that these assholes arenât inflicted upon society again at some point in the future.
Apparently you arenât familar with the conditions on death row.
I am-at least in Texas on the Polunsky unit at Livingston.
Inmates do not have access to television. At best, they have a radio in their cells.
Inmates do not play chess or checkers with other inmates-they are held in isolation with very limited access to exercise weekly.
Inmates do not have 3 square meals a day. Yes, they are fed but the food is the very cheapest possible.
Inmates are allowed one visit per week-not to exceed two hours and two visitors.
Inmates are allowed ten names on their visitor list at one time and they must be approved.
Livingston is not close to any major cities whicdh makes it difficult for the families of the prisoners to visit regularly.
There is a dress code for all visitors-one which bars women from wearing any shorts even in the middle of a Texas summer.
All books must be new and mailed directly from a bookseller.
All books must be approved.
No books or magazines may contain any sort of nudity.
I could go on but I can assure you life on the Polunsky unit has no resemblance to comfortable atmosphere you describe.
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### Author:  [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/113 "2011-09-22T21:08:11Z")
Never mind. Iâm going off track again. :smack:
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### Author:  [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/114 "2011-09-22T21:23:28Z")
> [@DianaG](#):
>
> Sure you are.
>
> If you genuinely think that executing innocent people is a better solution to the problem of the expense of capital punishment than eliminating capital punishment is, youâre at least as much a monster as most of the people whose state-sponsored murder you advocate.
Youâre not in a position to tell me what I am or am not okay with.
So you donât believe a state has the right to impose the death sentence. It happens that I do. As far as I can see, thatâs pretty much that. You can be as pissy as you want, but I have thought about my position at least as much as you have yours and come to a different conclusion. And yet I still manage to be civil about it. Odd.
I donât pretend to have all the answers, and it appears this subject is obviously WAY more important to you than it is to me because I really donât see the point in the nastiness. As far as my being monstrous? Give me a break. First of all, that whole âyou donât know anything about me IRLâ would seem to apply. And your desire to see our murderer die a painful natural death doesnât seem any less monstrous to me than someone else being okay with his execution.
> [@](#):
>
> [_Capice?_
Are you serious?
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/115 "2011-09-22T21:29:38Z")
> [@Hbns](#):
>
> Yes, for me that has been true since 1988. âš
I was interested in your point previously, regarding you waiting for the rest of the country to catch up. I fear that as long as the death penalty can be dangled as a political teaser, it will be difficult to repeal it fully.
Fact is, were the UK to have an open, straight majority referendum on capital punishment there is a good chance that the âyesâ vote would win.
I donât know how to feel about that. I acknowledge it merely to point out that I donât presume an inherent moral or ethical superiority in the UK. We are all subject to human vengeful tendencies.
I suspect that our more unilateral political system makes abolition an easier option than in the states. Though it runs counter to my democratic core, in this case I think having power of veto over the publicâs gut reaction is a good thing.
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### Author:  [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/116 "2011-09-22T21:59:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> So let me get this straight. Youâre against the death penalty because killing others, even vile monsters, is always wrong. Because when one person kills another, âit devalues us all.â But you also want to criticize mid-20th century Americans for hanging around watching Europeans killing Europeans and not âswinging into actionâ earlier.
>
> How exactly, pray tell, would you have the Americans convince the Europeans to stop killing each other? Begging really hard? Holding their breath and stomping around until Europe stopped? Bribing them with chocolates?
>
> Or can you think of a more direct, effective method?
Accepting Jewish refugees would have been a start. Iâm not going to get into a hijack about the Holocaust but I will say there is a difference between aid and violence, and between killing as part of war (which nearly everyone agrees is tragic, as far as I can tell), and a state killing its own citizens in peacetime and calling it âjusticeâ.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/117 "2011-09-22T22:09:32Z")
Accepting Jewish refugees would have stopped Hitler from invading Poland?
Please tell me youâre not serious.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/118 "2011-09-22T22:14:14Z")
> [@Hbns](#):
>
> America is not a country of sweeping federal uniformity, and your generalizations are provably false for many states including my own.
By definition, there are no countries of âsweeping federal uniformityâ.
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### Author:  [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/119 "2011-09-22T22:22:23Z")
Does anyone expect the OP to return to this ârantâ?
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [September 22, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawrence-russell-brewer-dead/597158/120 "2011-09-22T22:27:46Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#):
>
> Does anyone expect the OP to return to this ârantâ?
I suspect that after being told that he makes Jesus sick, heâs unlikely to stick his head above the parapet again here. I guarantee that this isnât the thread he was expecting to ensue.
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