# Lawyer with Texas SOS fired for talking about Karl Rove **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127 "2005-09-11T19:34:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/1 "2005-09-11T19:34:56Z")
From the _Washington Post,_ 9/1/05 – [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091000768.html:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091000768.html:) > [@](#): > > AUSTIN, Texas – A lawyer with the Texas secretary of state was fired after she spoke to a reporter about presidential adviser Karl Rove’s eligibility to vote in the state. > > Elizabeth Reyes, 30, said she was dismissed last week for violating the agency’s media policy after she was quoted in a Sept. 3 story by The Washington Post about tax deductions on Rove’s homes in Washington and Texas. > > \ > > Reyes told the Post on Friday a superior told her that her bosses were upset about the article. [Texas Secretary of State Roger] Williams has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Republicans, including President Bush, who relies heavily on Rove for political strategy. > > While Reyes said she didn’t know she was talking to a reporter, she said the press policy doesn’t bar her from speaking with the media. > > \ > > The Post earlier reported that Rove inadvertently received a homestead tax deduction on his home in Washington, even though he had not been eligible for the benefit for more than three years. Rove was eligible for the deduction when he bought the home in 2001, but a change in the tax law in 2002 made the deduction available only to property owners who do not vote elsewhere. Rove is registered to vote in Texas. > > The tax office admitted the mistake, saying it failed to rescind the deduction, and Rove agreed to reimburse the city an estimated $3,400 in back taxes, the Post reported. > > Rove is registered to vote in Kerr County, Texas, where he and his wife own two rental homes that he claims as his residence. But two local residents told the Post they had never seen Rove there. > > The Post reported Saturday that when its reporter called the Texas secretary of state’s office for her story, she was told the press officer was on vacation and she was transferred to Reyes. > > The attorney told the reporter that it was potential vote fraud in Texas to register in a place where you don’t actually live, and she was quoted as saying Rove’s cottages don’t “sound like a residence to me, because it’s not a fixed place of habitation.” > > The Post ran a correction Saturday saying Reyes had not been asked about Rove by name and that the story should have mentioned Reyes’s further explanation that an individual’s intent to return to a home owned in Texas is a primary factor in qualifying for residency. Issues for debate: 1. Was this firing justified? 2. Why did it happen? Would it have happened if the party at issue were someone other than Rove? Did Williams (official bio – [http://www.sos.state.tx.us/about/sosbio.shtml](http://www.sos.state.tx.us/about/sosbio.shtml)) do this on his own with no prodding from the WH? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/2 "2005-09-12T00:44:00Z")
My question is: how reasonable is it to expect a politican to live in Texas while they are working in Washington DC? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/3 "2005-09-12T00:53:22Z")
For elected politicians, I can see allowing them to keep residency in their state, even through loopholes. For their employees, well, it’s just like anyone else taking a job in a new state. You move, you change residency. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/4 "2005-09-12T01:17:34Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > My question is: how reasonable is it to expect a politican to live in Texas while they are working in Washington DC? I’m trying to focus debate on Williams’ actions, not Rove’s. (Unless Rove himself placed a call to get Reyes fired – which we probably would never know.) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/5 "2005-09-12T02:29:48Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > My question is: how reasonable is it to expect a politican to live in Texas while they are working in Washington DC? Well, I’d doubt calling Rove a ‘politican’ is correct in any event. But let me say that all of the House and Senate maintain real homes in their respective districts or states and shuttle back and forth most weeks. On the firing…I’d have to know exactly what the ‘media policy’ constituted. There can be real reasons for government employees to avoid commenting on their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/6 "2005-09-12T10:57:57Z")
I’m choking on my own words here, but I can see Rove’s argument. I guess a suitable analogy might be to members of the military. They’re allowed to keep their residency in their home state, even though they may live in another for several years. No one expects, say, a Texan to register to vote in and pay taxes to Virginia; the Texan is still a Texan for legal purposes, since, for all intents and purposes, they maintain two residences as well: one in their home state of record, and another where they actually sleep. Similarly, we expect our elected officials and political appointees not to take up permanent residence in DC. Congressmen, of course, must maintain a residence in their district, but I can see where a political appointee would want to go home when his term is up. I will say, though, that there are better ways to establish residency than to use the address of a rental home that you own. Like, say, renting a room at the Houstonian Hotel. 😉 Robin ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/7 "2005-09-12T11:03:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From the _Washington Post,_ 9/1/05 – [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091000768.html:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091000768.html:) > > Issues for debate: > > 1. Was this firing justified? > > 2. Why did it happen? Would it have happened if the party at issue were someone other than Rove? Did Williams (official bio – [Biography of Secretary of State John B. Scott](http://www.sos.state.tx.us/about/sosbio.shtml)) do this on his own with no prodding from the WH? No idea. What. specifically, was the “media policy” of her organization? I can be fired for speaking to the media as a representative of my organization, because I am not authorized to do so. My company has a press office, and announcements or comments of any sort come through it. Period. If a similar policy existed here, then I would say the firing is justified. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/8 "2005-09-12T13:13:54Z")
Without knowing more it’s hard to say about the firing. I certainly think some form of reprimand, mayber for others besides Reyes, is in order, but firing? Most businesses and government offices have a policy that all questions from the press are referred to the public relations office. I know I would certainly not give out any information to some unknown caller on the telephone. Ordinary telephone manners seem to me to require that the caller identify him or herself and whoever transferred the call from the press officer to Reyes should certainly have givern her the callers identity. We don’t know any of those details and so it’s hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/9 "2005-09-12T13:46:31Z")
A lawyer of all people should know when to keep their trap shut. As to the broader question of residency, this is a bugbear that comes up from time to time. I recall John Thune used this identical issue as a slam against Tom Daschle in that race. So long as there is are capital cities in this country, you’ll see these sorts of things trip up members of both parties. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/10 "2005-09-12T14:18:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can be fired for speaking to the media as a representative of my organization, because I am not authorized to do so. My company has a press office, and announcements or comments of any sort come through it. Period. There’s that. I’d guess that also, Reyes was a pain in the ass employee and her supervisor used this breaking of rules on Reyes’s part to get rid of her. You don’t dump good ones over something like this, but stinkers? It’s a great opportunity to clean house. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/11 "2005-09-12T19:51:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No idea. What. specifically, was the “media policy” of her organization? > > I can be fired for speaking to the media as a representative of my organization, because I am not authorized to do so. My company has a press office, and announcements or comments of any sort come through it. Period. > > If a similar policy existed here, then I would say the firing is justified. The article discusses that, but the issue remains unclear, along with the actual content of the discussion between Reyes and the _Post_ reporter: > [@](#): > > Scott Haywood, a spokesman for Texas Secretary of State Roger Williams, confirmed Reyes’ firing but wouldn’t discuss specifics. He had earlier told the Post that Reyes “was not authorized to speak on behalf of the agency.” > > \ > > While Reyes said she didn’t know she was talking to a reporter, she said the press policy doesn’t bar her from speaking with the media. > > “The policy allows us to talk to members of the media,” she told the Post. “The policy says if it’s a controversial issue or a special issue, it needs to be forwarded on to someone else. Just talking to the media doesn’t violate it, as I read it. … Karl Rove didn’t come up. It wasn’t something you could classify as controversial.” > > She said she sent a certified letter to Williams’s office asking that her dismissal be reconsidered. > > \ > > The Post reported Saturday that when its reporter called the Texas secretary of state’s office for her story, she was told the press officer was on vacation and she was transferred to Reyes. > > The attorney told the reporter that it was potential vote fraud in Texas to register in a place where you don’t actually live, and she was quoted as saying Rove’s cottages don’t “sound like a residence to me, because it’s not a fixed place of habitation.” > > The Post ran a correction Saturday saying Reyes had not been asked about Rove by name and that the story should have mentioned Reyes’s further explanation that an individual’s intent to return to a home owned in Texas is a primary factor in qualifying for residency. > > However, the reporter did identify herself as working for the Post during two phone conversations with Reyes, and in the second one she said she was asking about a presidential adviser who had moved from Texas to Washington, the newspaper said. IOW, Reyes was asked to field a question just because the press officer was out. > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > A lawyer of all people should know when to keep their trap shut. Yes, when asked for confidential info about a client or a case in progress. In this instance, Reyes was simply asked for a legal opinion based on certain facts as stated by the reporter. Giving such opinions is a lawyer’s **job.** Especially a public-sector lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/12 "2005-09-13T00:22:23Z")
Mr. Rove is the most powerful and vengeful unelected Republican in our fair nation. If I were an elected Republican, and I cared to be reelected ever again, I would fire an employee who had, in _The Washington Post,_ accused Karl Rove of fraud. A Republican who pisses off Rove might as well switch parties. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/13 "2005-09-13T02:19:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No idea. What. specifically, was the “media policy” of her organization? > > I can be fired for speaking to the media as a representative of my organization, because I am not authorized to do so. My company has a press office, and announcements or comments of any sort come through it. Period. > > If a similar policy existed here, then I would say the firing is justified. I’m guessing that a major difference between your company and the Texas Secretary of State’s office is that they most likely often answer questions along the lines of “if I claim a Texas residence but really live in another state, which state am allowed to vote in?” from the general public. The article cited seems to indicate that the media policy Reyes answered to allowed employees to answer those sorts of questions from the press. I’d say she probably said too much, but was still within the bounds of the policy, but that prior to the Post clarifying that it hadn’t asked about Rove by name, it would have looked like the sort of “controversial” issue that she was supposed to refer elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/14 "2005-09-13T14:28:19Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I’m guessing that a major difference between your company and the Texas Secretary of State’s office is that they most likely often answer questions along the lines of “if I claim a Texas residence but really live in another state, which state am allowed to vote in?” from the general public. The article cited seems to indicate that the media policy Reyes answered to allowed employees to answer those sorts of questions from the press. I’d say she probably said too much, but was still within the bounds of the policy, but that prior to the Post clarifying that it hadn’t asked about Rove by name, it would have looked like the sort of “controversial” issue that she was supposed to refer elsewhere. It’s unclear. According to Reyes, the media policy permitted her conversation. According to Scott Haywood, the policy did NOT permit her conversation. This should be an easy question to resolve. What, precisely, does the policy say? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/15 "2005-09-13T20:46:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This should be an easy question to resolve. What, precisely, does the policy say? Well, I can’t seem to find it on their website ([http://www.sos.state.tx.us/](http://www.sos.state.tx.us/)), and I don’t suppose an internal policy of that kind would be posted there anyway. I guess we’ll have to wait for further news reports and/or litigation, should Reyes decide to contest this in court. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/16 "2005-09-17T19:58:28Z")
[Just a little more on this matter](http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/081705dntexrove.21bcdfd3.html). Apparently it did not occur to the Texas Sec of State to fire this staff lawyer until the Great Poo-bah himself phoned. It just gets curiouser and curiouser. Note that gov’t employees in Texas, according to this paper, are at-will employees subject to dismissal without cause or notice. I was about to say how great it was to have Texans running the country until I realized that Mr Rove probably isn’t a real Texan any more. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/17 "2005-09-17T20:52:43Z")
Just to highlight, in case anyone fails to click on your link, **Spavined Gelding** : > [@](#): > > AUSTIN – White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove personally called the Texas secretary of state about a newspaper story quoting a staff lawyer about whether Mr. Rove was eligible to vote in the state. > > The lawyer was subsequently fired. Rove is a slimy, dirty, fat little cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/18 "2005-09-17T20:55:07Z")
I’m sorry for spewing such vitriol in Great Debates - I was thinking it was the pit. The point remains - Rove is a vindictive scumbag who personally intervened to have the lawyer fired. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyer-with-texas-sos-fired-for-talking-about-karl-rove/321127/19 "2005-09-18T02:51:31Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Note that gov’t employees in Texas, according to this paper, are at-will employees subject to dismissal without cause or notice. !!! Is Texas the only modern state government with no civil service protections at all?