# Lawyers: Is this assault? If so, aren't the cops obligated to arrest the perpetrators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223 "2017-02-07T13:12:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/1 "2017-02-07T13:12:30Z")
I came across [this video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWoQfZgW7M) In it a lone protestor of some stripe seems to be on the UC Berkeley Campus. He is alone, standing right in front of a bunch of cops. A woman, who happens to be an activist and a professor at the school, wants the person to leave. She starts pushing him, then actually punching hi, At about this time, some of her fellow activists tackle the guy and punch and kick him when he’s on the ground. The cops finally come in and rescue the guy, and then just make him leave. Okay, my questions are: 1. Are cops allowed to stand by and simply watch one person being assaulted? 2. When witnessing the assault in action, are they obligated in any way to arrest the assailants? 3. What is your take on the the behavior of the cops here? 4. Could the guy who got attacked sue the police based on this video? 5. Could this victim, again based on this video, insist that the assailants be arrested and prosecuted. I’m looking for straight legal answers here. Not interested in the righteousness of stupidity of either side’s beliefs. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/2 "2017-02-07T13:44:09Z")
I’m no lawyer but that was simply assault which is a crime. Why the police did not arrest them is open to interpretations. Did they have orders not to intervene yet maintain order? The police had to step in when they started ganging up on the guy. This was apparently a peaceful protest which is allowed but this lady got physical which is a nono. She should have been arrested for assault and inciting a riot. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/3 "2017-02-07T15:11:54Z")
She’s not a professor, she’s a [middle school teacher.](http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/09/23/berkeley-school-district-places-yvette-felarca-on-administrative-leave/) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/4 "2017-02-07T15:29:29Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > I’m no lawyer but that was simply assault which is a crime. Why the police did not arrest them is open to interpretations. Did they have orders not to intervene yet maintain order? > > The police had to step in when they started ganging up on the guy. This was apparently a peaceful protest which is allowed but this lady got physical which is a nono. > > She should have been arrested for assault and inciting a riot. That would be my take. Curious what a lawyer would say. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/5 "2017-02-07T15:31:21Z")
In general, there is no duty that requires cops to intervene. The victim of the assault cannot sue the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/6 "2017-02-07T15:40:45Z")
Police do not act on every crime. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/7 "2017-02-07T15:56:53Z")
This was not in Berkeley, it was in Sacramento(as noted in the video). [At least 10 hurt at chaotic, bloody neo-Nazi rally at Capitol](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article86099332.html) > [@](#): > > Even before the event began, clashes broke out at numerous locations around the Capitol grounds among the 400 people gathered for and against the rally, which had been heavily promoted – and denounced – in recent days on various websites. Injuries were reported on both sides of the altercation. [Police defend response to violent rally at California Capitol](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article86248757.html) > [@](#): > > Sacramento police and the California Highway Patrol are defending the way they handled Sunday’s bloody neo-Nazi rally that spun out of control and left 10 people injured – five of them stabbed – saying they intervened quickly to halt some assaults and that more than 100 Sacramento officers were on scene at the time violence broke out. > > **Sacramento police said none of the injuries are considered life-threatening and that no arrests have been made, but detectives are scouring hundreds of hours of video from the scene in hopes of identifying suspects.** Police also are investigating a loaded 9 mm pistol that was found on the Capitol grounds and turned over to authorities after the rally. [Crime Q&A: Any arrests as result of June neo-Nazi, anti-facist clashes at state Capitol?](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article129079029.html) > [@](#): > > \*Q: I would like to know whether there were any arrests made in connection with clashes between one or more white supremacist groups and other groups, including Antifa and their leader Yvette Falarca. Assaults were recorded on video. I believe this occurred on or about June 28 of last year. > \* > > A: The violent clashes on and around the state Capitol grounds June 26 remain under investigation, according to Jaime Coffee, a spokeswoman for the California Highway Patrol, the agency handling follow-up of the incident. > > No arrests have been made to date, she said. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/8 "2017-02-07T16:00:38Z")
Police generally aren’t obligated to make arrests, and when they are required to it’s usually only for felony cases. It’s quite routine for police to not cite or arrest anyone for cases of simple assault (or battery, depending on what your local laws call it), if you hang around college bars on a Saturday it’s not unheard of to see two people get in a fight or a bouncer roughly eject someone and no one get a ticket or arrest. In the video it looks to me like the cops saw that the woman punching him wasn’t really hurting him so they waited to see what would happen, and when several people jumped the guy they immediately stepped in to break up the fight and keep any serious injury from happening. It looks like they tried to let things play out, and stopped it as soon as it escalated to serious violence. I don’t know where people get the idea that you can sue the police for not doing exactly what you want, or that you can ‘insist’ that they arrest someone in any meaningful sense. (I can insist that you wear a Burger King crown, but it’s clearly not effective or meaningful). Also, the fact that the video starts where it did, showing none of what the guy did leading up to the altercation, makes me suspect that he was a lot less of an innocent victim than the person posting the video wants us to think. I’m not willing to call the guy a ‘victim’ from just the video provided, as it’s quite possible that he instigated the fight, and I’m even more skeptical than usual when the ‘victim’ is an unrepentant neo-nazi according to the person posting the video. Any question of whether the guy is a victim or instigator, or of how justified the cops are in their response, would require seeing the actions leading up to the video. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/9 "2017-02-07T16:02:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I came across [this video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWoQfZgW7M) I always thought white supremacists were tough? Dude looks anything _but_ supreme, getting pushed around by a little woman. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/10 "2017-02-07T17:23:47Z")
Wouldn’t the nazi need to actively press charges before the cops do anything wrt a simple assault ? ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/11 "2017-02-07T18:16:00Z")
I think Pantastic has the best answer as to the police. They are watching that it doesn’t get too serious yet still doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/12 "2017-02-07T18:40:16Z")
I don’t know the details of the event, and didn’t watch the video, but I suspect the police have a triage system for dealing with large crowds. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/13 "2017-02-07T18:43:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > This was not in Berkeley, it was in Sacramento(as noted in the video). > [At least 10 hurt at chaotic, bloody neo-Nazi rally at Capitol](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article86099332.html) > [Police defend response to violent rally at California Capitol](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article86248757.html) > [Crime Q&A: Any arrests as result of June neo-Nazi, anti-facist clashes at state Capitol?](http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article129079029.html) Thanks for the info. I did see another video that was really mayhem, with lots of people. One guy who has a bat for big stick takes a full windup and hits a guy in the back. I would think that guy could be prosecuted. I’m just amazed that this group is no brazen. Can’t have much sympathy for KKK types or white supremacists, but the principle that the BAMN group can so easily get away with assaulting people is disturbing in the extreme. And for a group who claims to hate fascism to think they can assault and beat people who voice different opinions breaks any irony meter. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/14 "2017-02-07T18:47:09Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > I think Pantastic has the best answer as to the police. They are watching that it doesn’t get too serious yet still doing their job. I agree that it makes sense to not intervene when it was just that woman trying to push and punch him. But I would have thought that as soon as he was attacked and being hit on the ground, someone should have been arrested. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/15 "2017-02-07T18:51:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In general, there is no duty that requires cops to intervene. The victim of the assault cannot sue the cops. Theoretically, if this guy was stabbed while being beaten on the ground, I wold think he could sue the cops for standing by and allowing it to escalate. As far as I can tell, they didn’t even verbally direct the early assault. Now, he wasn’t stabbed, but is being pushed and kicked permissible and stabbing verboten? I’m not trying to foist responsibility on to the cops here, I’m really exploring what level of protection should people reasonably expect from cops when they are being assaulted. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/16 "2017-02-07T18:52:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And for a group who claims to hate fascism to think they can assault and beat people who voice different opinions breaks any irony meter. They don’t assault and beat people “who voice different opinions”. They beat on nazis, specifically. Because \*their \*specific opinion in itself is or leads to structural violence. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/17 "2017-02-07T18:53:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Wouldn’t the nazi need to actively press charges before the cops do anything wrt a simple assault ? If you want to discuss the strength or weakness of neo-nazi types. Feel free to start your own thread about it. I’m looking for factual answers here about assault being witnessed by cops. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/18 "2017-02-07T18:55:21Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > They don’t assault and beat people “who voice different opinions”. They beat on nazis, specifically. Because \*their \*specific opinion in itself is or leads to structural violence. I think the law protects their speech, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/19 "2017-02-07T18:57:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay, my questions are: > > 1. Are cops allowed to stand by and simply watch one person being assaulted? > 2. When witnessing the assault in action, are they obligated in any way to arrest the assailants? > 3. What is your take on the the behavior of the cops here? > 4. Could the guy who got attacked sue the police based on this video? > 5. Could this victim, again based on this video, insist that the assailants be arrested and prosecuted. > > I’m looking for straight legal answers here. Not interested in the righteousness of stupidity of either side’s beliefs. > > Thanks. [ol] [li]Yes.[/li][li]No.[/li][li]Opinion[/li][li]Sue - yes. Win - probably no.[/li][li]Insist - yes. Force police or prosecutors - no.[/li][/ol] The first example that comes to mind is a[NY Subway incident](http://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/) where police were a few feet away from a man getting stabbed and only intervened after the stabbing victim subdued the attacker on his own. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223/20 "2017-02-07T19:15:07Z")
In Virginia, the criminal code limits when a police officer may make an arrest, i.e., an officer may only make an arrest when they witness a misdemeanor, or have probable cause to believe a felony has been committed. The only situation in which a law enforcement officer must make an arrest for a misdemeanor they did not witness, is for suspected domestic violence (although that is local policy where I practice). There is nothing which mandates arrest, for very very good public policy reasons. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lawyers-is-this-assault-if-so-arent-the-cops-obligated-to-arrest-the-perpetrators/779223.md?page=2)