# Lay/ Lie, Dove/Dived-Bad grammar or regional variation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691 "2004-04-23T19:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/1 "2004-04-23T19:14:22Z")
Somone with a better grasp of grammar, can you help me out with this please? In the UK the past tense of the verb “to dive” is “dived”. eg “He dived into the pool to rescue the drowning man.” My understanding is that in the US the past tense is “dove”. eg “He dove into the pool to rescue the drowning man.” Hopefully I got that right…unless that’s just a common grammatical error? So, my question is, in the USA is it considered correct grammar to use “lay” in the following sentences? “He was laying on the bed” “I’ll lay down.” Personally I would say: “He was lying on the bed.” “I’ll lie down.” The former way sounds “wrong” to me, although it seems a common turn of phrase amongst the Americans I know. Is it bad grammar on their part, or just a case of two countries separated by a common language? ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/2 "2004-04-23T20:05:18Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > My understanding is that in the US the past tense is “dove”. > eg “He dove into the pool to rescue the drowning man.” [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) has an [explanation](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dived) of this. > [@](#): > > **Usage Note:** Either _dove_ or _dived_ is acceptable as the past tense of dive. Usage preferences show regional distribution, although both forms are heard throughout the United States. According to the Dictionary of American Regional English, in the North, dove is more prevalent; in the South Midland, dived. Dived is actually the earlier form, and the emergence of dove may appear anomalous in light of the general tendencies of change in English verb forms. > [@irishgirl](#): > > So, my question is, in the USA is it considered correct grammar to use “lay” in the following sentences? > > “He was laying on the bed” > “I’ll lay down.” No, it is not considered correct, but few people know the difference. Personally it drives me nutty. At least we Americans didn’t [start](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lay) the practice. > [@](#): > > **Usage Note:** _Lay_ (“to put, place, or prepare”) and _lie_ (“to recline or be situated”) have been confused for centuries; evidence exists that lay has been used to mean “lie” since the 1300s. Why? First, there are two lays. One is the base form of the verb lay, and the other is the past tense of lie. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/3 "2004-04-23T20:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > “He was laying on the bed” > “I’ll lay down.” These are common in speech, but are generally recognized as poor grammar, especially in writing. What makes this more confusing is the past tense: “Yesterday, he lay on the bed.” That’s correct, but hard for people to remember. I’m kind of a grammar maven, and I have to think about which word is right. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/4 "2004-04-23T20:14:56Z")
Both _dived_ and _dove_ are acceptable in the U.S. — at least according to [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com), which has this to say: > [@](#): > > Dive, which was originally a weak verb, developed a past tense dove, probably by analogy with verbs like drive, drove. Dove exists in some British dialects and has become the standard past tense especially in speech in some parts of Canada. In the U.S. dived and dove are both widespread in speech as past tense and past participle, with dove less common than dived in the south Midland area, and dived less common than dove in the Northern and north Midland areas. In writing, the past tense dived is usual in British English and somewhat more common in American English. Dove seems relatively rare as a past participle in writing. In my own experience in the central eastern U.S., I would agree with all the above, but add that I’ve **never** heard _dove_ used as a past participle in speech either (“He has dove into the pool.”). Certainly not that I can remember; it just sounds way too wrong. I suppose somebody out there must be saying this though. The proper usage and past tenses for _lie_ and _lay_ are exactly the same here as in the UK, I believe. Again, Merriam-Webster has entries on the words. So, any American you catch saying “I was laying on the bed” you can feel free to smack, on my behalf. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/5 "2004-04-23T22:07:16Z")
Lie and lay are easy once you memorize them. Lie, lay, lain. Lay, lay, laid. I lie down every day. I do lie down every day. I was lying down. Yesterday I lay down. Many times I have lain down for a nap. I lay down the book. I do lay it down. I was laying down the book. Yesterday I lay down the book. Many times I have laid down the book. Isn’t this fun??? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/6 "2004-04-23T22:18:44Z")
Another “thing” to note is that “lie” is an intransitive verb; whereas, “lay” (as the present tense and not the past tense of “lie”) is a transitive verb. One lays down (or up) an object, but a subject merely lies (except when he’s telling the truth. :)) ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lay-lie-dove-dived-bad-grammar-or-regional-variation/241691/7 "2004-04-23T22:31:55Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > Lay, lay, laid. > > … > > Yesterday I lay down the book. Wrong. The past of lay is laid.