Did maybe miss the part about Chef Troy being in Dallas? I don’t know where you are, but there really is a difference overall in the South. I think it comes from the whole region being rural for so long (and of course is still in statistically most parts). When the populations are small, you don’t get so inured to meeting people.
When I was driving on “mile roads” in the middle of Kansas, people I’d never seen before would wave as they went by in the opposite direction, only because I was the only car they’d seen in the past two minutes. One guy just stopped to talk crop conditions and yields with me, as I was one of probably 3 people in that square mile (thank goodness I’d learned something about that beforehand).
I’d make money betting on where you’d be most likely to get help with a stroller: downtown Dallas or downtown Philadelphia.
Over and out. I’ll do my best and soldier on. No, I am not some dumbasshit smiley Yank who wears a USA flag on my t-shirt as I buy stupid trinkets for my family back home, but I look like one I suppose, though I don’t know how. I am Middle Eastern and look it, so that must be it. Ah, well, I’ll enjoy the culture while I’m here if and when the damn museum staff stop their strike (I’m all for unions, btw, just not when I get a baby-free day and can go to the Musee d’Orsay and they are closed!
Arghhh…
Thanks for posting.
Cardinal: no, I didn’t miss the part where Chef Troy mentioned he was in Dallas. Neither did I miss the part where he said, “Americans (at least here in Dallas) will be nice to you even if you just share an elevator for a moment. And yes, they’ll help you navigate a stroller down a flight of stairs.” He may be right that some or even many Americans in Dallas are especially friendly in elevators and help people with strollers but not ALL of them do. Neither are ALL Parisians mean and rude.
I suppose it’s kind of pointless for me to keep arguing: this same topic comes up every few months and no matter how much a few of us try to point out the fallacies in the “All French are rude all the time” statement, someone always comes back with “But they all are! I was there and a sales clerk was mean to me too! See, they ARE all rude!!” That argument makes no more sense than “All Irish are drunks,” “All fat people are jolly,” or “All Southerners are friendly and helpful.”
I don’t mean to imply that all French are rude (see my comments on different expectations), and ask any southerner if he’s met a jerk in his hometown - of course he has.
I’m hoping that’s a bit of very sly double-back humor.
If you consider the writer Peter Mayle any reliable source, he’s mentioned several times that Parisians are not particularly liked in the south of France. They’re considered stuck-up, rude and are barely tolerated.
When I was staying with a family in Marseille 2 summers ago, they often commented on how rude the Parisians could be.
As we were driving to Saint-Tropez, we were sitting in traffic, and a car passed the stopped traffic, driving on the median at about 20 MPH. My parents pointed out the “75” on the license plate, indicating that they were from Paris, and said they weren’t surprised.
Been to Montreal about half a dozen times. I minored in French at university in the US, so of course I learned Parisian French. One of my professors said I spoke it with a Québec accent, oddly enough, but the dialect would definitely be Parisian. Anyway, my experience with speaking French in Montreal has always been that the Québecois are just happy for you to try, no matter which dialect you speak (and no matter how badly you butcher it). Can’t recall any Montrealer ever being rude or snobbish about it.
Anhita, if you’re middle-eastern, no need to wonder why you get this kind of offensive attitutes. I guess nobody magically perceive you’re american. But certainly they notice you’re some kind of nasty arab. Crumbs of the floor? Hey, everybody knows that these (possibly illegal immigrant) arabs aren’t able to taught their child to behave properly (how could they, anyway, they’re littering them by dozens). Anyway, they’re dirty, so it’s no surprise if they spread crumbs everywhere. You can bet these childs will become thugs, drug dealers or terrorists.
I would want not to appear so negative, but being from the middle-east, you’re likely to face everyday, ordinary racism.
Apart from that, indeed, one don’t usually smile to a random stranger (well…you can in a lot of circumstances, but I guess to know exactly when/where it’s done/expected or not require that you’ve been brought up here). But (very) generally speaking, a wide smile from a stranger can be interpreted in the following ways in a french major city :
1a)You’re a hypocrite
1b)You intend to sell me a vacuum cleaner
2a)You’re a former high school friend I totally forgot about
2b)You’re a former high school friend I tried to forget about
3a)You’re about to invade my privacy
3b)You feel lonely tonight and wouldn’t mind getting into my pants
4a)You’re simple-minded
4b)You’re a freak
Stick to discreet smiles, not wide shining-teeth ones.
Also, formal politness is expected. Even if the person (say, the clerk) didn’t consciensiously notice you didn’t say “bonjour monsieur”, he feels you’ve been rude
As for countryside people disliking Parisians, it’s certainly true. But having a grudge against the people who live in the big city up there is hardly a french specificity, IME.
How exactly does improving your language skills and your ability to communicate with those around you equate to losing your identity? Did I lose my identity by learning French and Spanish?
Should someone be proud that they do not speak some language well and be determined to maintain that situation despite the problems it causes?
Your response is a straw man, and I’m calling it out.
That’s quite true. And extremely common in all situations, everywhere. People tend to prefer other people who look like them, wear the same kind of cloths, speak like them, behave like them, think like them, vote like them, etc… Nothing new under the sun…
Perhaps, but learning the language does not change who she is, it only facilitates better communication. Her clothing preference, opinions, and gait don’t change because she learns more French vocabulary and grammar.
If anything, being able to communicate clearly makes it so you can explain your differences.
Now, before you go and get all in a hissy-fit matt, maybe you oughta go back and read the OP again. It doesn’t read like this was a problem created by miscommunication, but one created by a humorless individual acting like an asshole. And while your oh-so-helpful advice on improving her french is a lovely sentiment, it’s also way off the mark.
Ability to communicate in the local dialect is obviously key to cultivating relationships, or at least finding out where the loo is. Assuming such a trite ‘solution’ will go any distance towards alleviating a situation such as the one described in the OP is a trifle simplistic.
Now, speaking as a born-and-bred “Westmount Anglo”, 23 years of residence ran me into the entire spectrum of snotty francophones and ignorant anglais. My french never topped an intermediate level, and that never stood in the way of my path crossing with assholes of every stripe.
The fact of the matter is, we’re offering our experiences of rudeness or niceness as a validation of Anahita’s experience, which is what one is usually looking for in a Pit rant, rather than a finger-wagging over language abilities. We’ve all had varied experiences - we’re not looking for solutions, we’re getting shit off our chests here!
Speaking of which, shouldn’t you be in Ottawa protesting something?
Exactly, I also have posted a pickpocket experience on the MS board, which talks about the general apathy towards others here in Paris.
By the way, Matt, just for the record, visiting a country (no matter for how long, no matter how “engratiated” you made yourself) is very different from living in it. A tourist in Paris would/might night see the things I am talking about because they are so oblivious and just enjoying BEING HERE!
Most of the tourist wander around just gazing at the sites and don’t notice the small stuff, (i.e. grocery stores, post offices, etc) where most of my gripes are about.
Anhita, m’dear, I read a fascinating book by an American living in Paris who described the facts of life there. Title of book completely forgotten, I’m afraid, but published witin the last two years I’m certain.
She suggested that most established Parisians, especially older ones, don’t want to meet new people. They lead and enjoy formal lives, mingling only with people their families have known for years. Newcomers hold absolutely no attraction for them, and they despise the American inclination to be very friendly and to share personal information after a short acquaintance.
She also described “les vaches”, and for once the literal translation is perfect. Many older french women are just that - cows!
I think the general aim of her advice was, if you understand and accept this beforehand, you can save yourself strife, and you may even be able to enjoy the interactions. You will never get a charming smile from these cows. To ignore you is the greatest compliment thay can pay you.
No, that would be if they envied you your clothes and hair and figure. And you don’t even want to get into that battle.
Perhaps if you ignore the cows, the pleasant, younger, more open Parisians are more noticeable?