# Lead Singer of Kiss, you are a moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727 "2017-06-24T05:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/1 "2017-06-24T05:17:36Z")
That guy with the ridiculous tongue is off his kilter. He [wants to trademark](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/kiss-singer-wants-to-trademark-devil-horns-rock-and-roll-sign/) the two-finger+thumb gesture that you see in concert crowds. Not Kiss concerts, _all manner of concerts_, everywhere. Except, I suppose, Chris Cross or the London Philharmonic – most of the time. Why the ever loving fuck does this guy think he ought to own this? If anyone should, it would probably be Ozzy, but it is so pervasive that trademarking it is just out of bounds. So, Chaim, I say take those fingers and simultaneously shove them into various orifices about your body. You are one more shithead example of what is wrong with this country. Well, one of the things, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/2 "2017-06-24T05:30:22Z")
Say what you want about Gene, but he’s no moron. He’s marketed KISS to the absolute extremes and has never been embarrassed or ashamed for doing so. He’s made a fortune out of his various marketing ploys. I’d actually call him a genius for popularizing and making a shit load of money from a three-chord group that wouldn’t sell out a small town hockey rink if it wasn’t for all the makeup and marketing gimmicks over the years. I don’t think he will ever be successful in trademarking this gesture, but once again, it’s got everyone talking about KISS, and that’s just what Gene wants. ETA: Huge KISS fan since 1974. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/3 "2017-06-24T05:34:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Why the ever loving fuck does this guy think he ought to own this? If anyone should, it would probably be Ozzy, but it is so pervasive that trademarking it is just out of bounds. [You’re giving credit to the wrong Black Sabbath frontman;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns#Heavy_metal_culture) > [@](#): > > Ronnie James Dio was known for popularizing the sign of the horns in heavy metal.He claimed his Italian grandmother used it to ward off the evil eye (which is known in Southern Italy as malocchio). Dio began using the sign soon after joining the metal band Black Sabbath in 1979. The previous singer in the band, Ozzy Osbourne, was rather well known at using the “peace” sign at concerts, raising the index and middle finger in the form of a V. Dio, in an attempt to connect with the fans, wanted to similarly use a hand gesture. However, not wanting to copy Osbourne, he chose to use the sign his grandmother always made. The horns became famous in metal concerts very soon after Black Sabbath’s first tour with Dio. It’s all absurd anyway - the gesture itself dates back thousands of years, and [Coven was using it](http://www.geocities.ws/occult_library/CBack.jpg) in a rock context before Kiss was even a thing. You may as well try to trademark the handshake or the thumbs-up. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/4 "2017-06-24T05:38:26Z")
Oh, and Paul Stanley is actually the lead singer on most songs, BTW. \_/ ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/5 "2017-06-24T05:48:54Z")
[Gene Simmons has already withdrawn the application for trademark.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalentertainment/2017/06/21/breaking-gene-simmons-abandons-hand-gesture-trademark-application/#22c06b1efaac) Get with the program, OP. At first I thought Gene was trying to trademark the UT [“Hook 'em Horns” gesture](http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/652*367/77949290.jpg), also used by metalheads everywhere. But apparently he was trying for the ASL “I Love You” sign, which is far less metal. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/6 "2017-06-24T05:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Update 6/23: USPTO records now show the trademark application was withdrawn on June 20. So, Simmons has reconsidered the application. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/7 "2017-06-24T11:13:33Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > At first I thought Gene was trying to trademark the UT [“Hook 'em Horns” gesture](http://media.nbcdfw.com/images/652*367/77949290.jpg), also used by metalheads everywhere. Slight hijack to make the same point: they did a comic book where a crowd is being held at gunpoint and Peter Parker needs to finally communicate to Johnny Storm that, _hey, so, yeah: I’m actually Spider-Man, okay? I’ve been keeping it a secret, but now you finally know, so: you get it, right? Make a diversion and I’ll go into action._ And so Peter covertly flashes him the “webshooter” gesture, which of course is also the “hook 'em horns” gesture, prompting Johnny to realize that – _wait, is he telling me he’s a Chicago Bulls fan? A devil worshipper? I don’t get what’s going on, here._ ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/8 "2017-06-24T15:25:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [You’re giving credit to the wrong Black Sabbath frontman;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns#Heavy_metal_culture) Funny you mentioned Ronnie Dio. He was fond of saying that [Gene Simmons invented breathing, and shoes, and everything else.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwQ1A5eB_dY) Of course it was good-natured ribbing since Dio & Simmons were close friends. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/9 "2017-06-24T21:12:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [You’re giving credit to the wrong Black Sabbath frontman;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns#Heavy_metal_culture) > > It’s all absurd anyway - the gesture itself dates back thousands of years, and [Coven was using it](http://www.geocities.ws/occult_library/CBack.jpg) in a rock context before Kiss was even a thing. You may as well try to trademark the handshake or the thumbs-up. Wait; are you saying that the handshake is available for trademarking? I gotta get my lawyer working on that ASAP! Wait; is ASAP trademarked? I gotta get him working on that too! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/10 "2017-06-24T22:26:38Z")
Yeah, well, I hold the patent on breathing, so pay up or die. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/11 "2017-06-24T22:57:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Yeah, well, I hold the patent on breathing, so pay up or die. You drive a hard bargain, but I guess I have no choice and need to pay. Having said that, I hold the patent on _patents_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/12 "2017-06-24T23:36:04Z")
Just to be clear, Simmons first filed and then withdrew an application to _register a trademark_. In theory, he can still try to use the gesture as a trademark and try to enforce trademark rights in it. It’s unlikely he would and even more unlikely he would be successful should he try. But that’s the difference between a trademark and a trademark registration. People try to register controversial trademarks all the time. They don’t usually give up so quickly because they usually still have a good chance to prove their trademark rights and get a registration. Simmons likely gave up so quickly not because of the controversy—shit, he loves controversy—but because his case that the gesture was a trademark at all that he could claim rights in was very weak. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/13 "2017-06-25T00:18:52Z")
A rock star who’s used to getting whatever he wants - like coke fountains and women by the busload - wants to see if he can buy a hand gesture and you’re surprised? ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/14 "2017-06-25T02:37:15Z")
Google “Gene Simmons is an asshole.” A _lot_ of hits. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/15 "2017-06-26T09:40:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You drive a hard bargain, but I guess I have no choice and need to pay. > > Having said that, I hold the patent on _patents_. And I hold the patent on _holding_. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/16 "2017-06-26T10:07:13Z")
And I hold the patent on the _alphabet_. Pay up, bitches. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/17 "2017-06-26T10:23:38Z")
> [@Mellivora\_capensis](#): > > And I hold the patent on the _alphabet_. > > Pay up, bitches. The joke’s on you - I hold the patent on _payment_. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/18 "2017-06-26T14:39:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The joke’s on you - I hold the patent on _payment_. Ha! That’s why I steal everything. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/19 "2017-06-26T17:54:10Z")
I hold the patent on stealing. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727/20 "2017-06-26T18:32:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Having said that, I hold the patent on _patents_. That’s a circular argument if I ever heard one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lead-singer-of-kiss-you-are-a-moron/789727.md?page=2)