# Leading cause of death: Milk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2001, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777 "2001-06-30T22:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/1 "2001-06-30T22:07:33Z")
I understand that the leading cause of death in the United States is heart disease. Furthermore, the leading cause of heart disease is the consumption of saturated fats. The leading source of saturated fat in the diet is dairy products, the most common of which is cow’s milk. Therefore, milk must be the #1 killer of Americans. Why is such a nefarious product still considered “wholesome” by most Americans? Why aren’t politicians going after this industry, like tobacco and gun manufacturers? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/2 "2001-06-30T22:18:18Z")
Because unlike tobacco and guns, milk is yummy. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/3 "2001-06-30T22:31:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cynic \* > \*\*I understand that the leading cause of death in the United States is heart disease. Furthermore, the leading cause of heart disease is the consumption of saturated fats. The leading source of saturated fat in the diet is dairy products, the most common of which is cow’s milk. Therefore, milk must be the #1 killer of Americans. Why is such a nefarious product still considered “wholesome” by most Americans? Why aren’t politicians going after this industry, like tobacco and gun manufacturers? \*\* You got a cite for the statement that most folks get their saturated fat from milk, **cynic**? Fast and deep-fried foods always seemed to be the greater culprit, at least in my medical reading. And now with research showing that it’s the trans fats that cause the worst damage, there’s less stigma attached to dairy than there used to be. But you’d better watch those stick margarines, they’re loaded with the bad fats! Qadgop, MD ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/4 "2001-06-30T22:39:50Z")
Your chain of reasoning is faulty. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cynic \* > **The leading source of saturated fat in the diet is dairy products.** Got a cite for this? 'Cause all I can find is this: [http://www.heartinfo.com/reuters2000/001020elin022.htm](http://www.heartinfo.com/reuters2000/001020elin022.htm) > [@](#): > > He argues that Americans consume too many animal products, the leading source of saturated fat in the diet. This means dairy AND meat AND eggs. [http://seattle.earthsave.org/hphp\_myths.htm](http://seattle.earthsave.org/hphp_myths.htm) > [@](#): > > Recent studies have shown that meat consumption is the number one source of saturated fat in the standard american diet, with milk being the second leading source. Meat. Then milk. [http://www.ahc.umn.edu/NewsAlert/Jul00/072000NewsAlert/54731.htm](http://www.ahc.umn.edu/NewsAlert/Jul00/072000NewsAlert/54731.htm) > [@](#): > > And so now cheese runs neck-and-neck with beef as the leading source of saturated fat in the American diet. Cheese and beef together. I can’t find anything that says that “milk is the leading source of saturated fats in the American diet”. Your chain of reasoning also breaks down because not that many adult Americans drink milk, and those that do, frequently drink low-fat or skim milk. Preview. DANG!! :mad: Must learn to type faster than the Mercotan. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/5 "2001-07-01T00:55:32Z")
We, the people that elect our government, in general, do not want the government telling us what to eat. Incidentally, even if you accept the assertions in the OP, there are still several flaws in the logic. Let’s suppose that heart disease kills about 50% of the population. Among all the causes of heart disease, let’s suppose that saturated fat is the direct cause of 50% of them. And furthermore, let’s pretend that 50% of those are caused by dairy products (i.e. dairy is those people’s only source of saturated fat). That’s about 12.5% of the population. Lung cancer could be cause number 2, with 20% of the population, 95% of whom get it from smoking or second-hand smoke. Then, if you toss in people that get heart disease from cigarettes as well, plus various other diseases, cigarettes could be responsible for twice as many deaths, easily. There is also a vast difference in the positive aspects of milk and dairy products as compared to cigarettes and guns. Also, there are substantially more people that consume dairy products than that smoke. And of course, there is also the matter of how much sooner people die due to dairy products than they would in their absence. And of course there’s the matter that it’s none of your business how much milk I drink or how long I’m going to live. ---
**Author:** ![cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/6 "2001-07-01T01:13:46Z")
I never said I want our government telling us what to eat. It’s just that the silence is deafening. ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/7 "2001-07-01T02:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cynic \* > **Furthermore, the leading cause of heart disease is the consumption of saturated fats.** I seriously doubt that the consumption of saturated fats, in and of itself, is the leading cause of heart disease. It would seem to me that a combination of an unbalanced diet (usually containing too many saturated fats, I’ll admit) **and** lack of exercise is the leading cause of heart disease in the US. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/8 "2001-07-01T02:31:57Z")
Next: “Recliners: where’s the outrage?” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/9 "2001-07-01T02:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cynic \* > \*\*I never said I want our government telling us what to eat. It’s just that the silence is deafening. \*\* Huh? What silence? Doctors and health advocates of every stripe are yelling and beating on drums made out of the skins of fat people… “Eat less fat! Get more exercise! Don’t over indulge!” and yet many Americans are becoming as fat as pigs mainly because we get a lot less exercise than we used to. Based on a recent report I saw (I’ll try to remember cite) the number of calories consumed per capita has not increased all that much since the mid sixties and yet incidence of obesity has increased substantially, especially among kids. This was laid mainly at the door of television, video games etc and (primarily) being carted around in automobiles and other transportation from place to place vs walking even short distances, which contributes to a physically sedentary lifestyle for many Americans (even kids) and the inevitable increases in weight which makes you less likely to be active etc etc. The problem is lot bigger and more intractable than the simple over consumption of dairy products. ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/10 "2001-07-02T05:12:50Z")
I’d like to see cynic’s PETA membership card, please. This sounds like the same load of garbage that was coming out of Bruce Friedrich’s mouth a few months ago on the radio talk show circuit. I won’t do them the favor of linking to their sites. I am a vegetarian, btw. However, PETA’s tactics and propoganda are outrageous and grossly offensive. As is registering on SDMB merely to incite the membership with your unsubstantiated claims. ---
**Author:** ![cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/11 "2001-07-02T16:37:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by evilhanz \* > \*\*I’d like to see cynic’s PETA membership card, please. This sounds like the same load of garbage that was coming out of Bruce Friedrich’s mouth a few months ago on the radio talk show circuit. I won’t do them the favor of linking to their sites. > > I am a vegetarian, btw. However, PETA’s tactics and propoganda are outrageous and grossly offensive. As is registering on SDMB merely to incite the membership with your unsubstantiated claims. \*\* I am not at all a PETA sympathizer, nor am I a vegetarian (I am considering it, though). I am much more concerned about humans than about cows. Facts remain facts even when you don’t like the people who are stating them. ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/12 "2001-07-02T16:55:23Z")
I prefer cows to humans, but I also prefer milk to almost any other drink under the sun. I may be a semi-veggie, but it looks like I’m dead meat if this milk thing is true. Between the prostate cancer and the heart disease discussed in this thread, I’m a gonner. Bye all! — G. Raven ---
**Author:** ![Qis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Qis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/13 "2001-07-02T19:23:07Z")
Am i incorrect in saying that drinking bad water and drowning are perhaps bigger killers than any other? Just a thought, maybe i am wroong, but when you think about the number of people that die every day from diseases caught from bad water, or those that die from not enough, add to teat the number of people thatdrown at sea, it hink we are in big numbers by now. maybe that is in the world, americans having less problems with water than, say, indians. just a thought Qis ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/14 "2001-07-02T21:18:48Z")
Hey, as mammals, we produce milk! I fail to see a significant problem with milk. Now people who can’t get their fat butts off the sofa and then have heart attacks seem to be the big problem here. America needs to do some jogging, and then drink some milk to keep its bones strong! ---
**Author:** ![cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/15 "2001-07-02T22:06:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Hey, as mammals, we produce milk! I fail to see a significant problem with milk. Now people who can’t get their fat butts off the sofa and then have heart attacks seem to be the big problem here. America needs to do some jogging, and then drink some milk to keep its bones strong! \*\* As far as I know, throughout history humans have breast fed their offspring for a maximum of 5 or 6 years. After this period saturated fats were not easily to come by (until a few thousand years ago when cattle were domesticated). For the vast majority of our evolution, adults ate diets extremely low in saturated fats. BTW, do you really believe that we need to be more concerned about osteoporosis that heart disease, which is far more common and considerably more deadly? ---
**Author:** ![mothman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@mothman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mothman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/16 "2001-07-02T22:08:40Z")
[http://www.notmilk.com](http://www.notmilk.com) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/17 "2001-07-02T22:13:42Z")
cynic, when questioing what type of diet nature “meant” for us to have, you ought to keep in mind that nature is only interested in keeping us alive til oour 30s and 40s at the latest. After that we become evolutionary dead ends. As heart disease tends to kill middle aged people, nature couldn’t care less. Furthermore, people “in the wild” thrive on all sorts of diets: we are amazingly flexible organisms, and the idea that there is some eating style that nature meant for us to have is fallacious. Lastly, several people have pointed out that meat and fried foods contribute much more saturated fat to people’s diets than milk, especially milk in a liquid form (which is often as not served skim or with its fat content halved, for god’s sake). So there is a fact here you need to accept, becasue “Facts remain facts even when you don’t like the people who are stating them.” ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/18 "2001-07-02T22:16:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sewalk \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by cynic \* > > **Furthermore, the leading cause of heart disease is the consumption of saturated fats.** > > I seriously doubt that the consumption of saturated fats, in and of itself, is the leading cause of heart disease. It would seem to me that a combination of an unbalanced diet (usually containing too many saturated fats, I’ll admit) **and** lack of exercise is the leading cause of heart disease in the US. \*\* Certainly we should be concerned about the premature, preventable deaths from heart disease. But some people are just genetically predisposed to develop heart problems. Another reason a high percentage of Americans die from heart disease is that they live long enough to get it, because they don’t die of other things first! What we want to look at here is the percentage of cases of heart disease that could be prevented by improving the diet. And I’m guessing that milk is not the major culprit here. ---
**Author:** ![cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/19 "2001-07-02T23:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manda JO \* > **cynic, when questioing what type of diet nature “meant” for us to have, you ought to keep in mind that nature is only interested in keeping us alive til oour 30s and 40s at the latest. After that we become evolutionary dead ends.** How can this be when men are fertile into their 70’s? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manda JO \* > \*\*Furthermore, people “in the wild” thrive on all sorts of diets: we are amazingly flexible organisms, and the idea that there is some eating style that nature meant for us to have is fallacious. > \*\* **EAT SHIT!** ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777/20 "2001-07-02T23:17:31Z")
I’d also suggest that you might need to be aware of where some of the info might come from. There’s a group called “The Physician’s Council on ‘Dairy Products’” or something like that. It turns out that, although physicians (supposedly but probably), they are also an anti-dairy group along the lines of PETA. The average Joe might see “Physcian’s Council” and think “Hey, these are doctors who have an interest in my health”. Wrong. Or maybe in their anti-dairy world they do. But they’ve formed a group with a legimately sounding name to promote their cause–which is ‘milk is evil’. I could form a group called the “Physician’s Group for LSD Mind Expansion” and it would have the same legitamacy–too bad (Ph.D) Timothy Leary’s dead. Imagine: “Harvard researcher states LSD is good for you!” Not the best example perhaps, but it makes the point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leading-cause-of-death-milk/70777.md?page=2)