# Leaked report of Russian blackmail of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846 "2017-01-10T23:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/301 "2017-01-12T15:10:58Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Six pages of trying to turn a story about fake news into a Trump failing Even for the Dope, that’s quite an achievement. Well done! Hey, we’re having fun, and Trump isn’t. That’s a good day in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/302 "2017-01-12T15:58:20Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Does anyone really doubt that this report was deliberately leaked by someone in the intelligence community in an attempt to damage Trump? That for me is the most worrying thing about this and it should worry everyone no matter their political allegiance. The implications of it are far more frightening than any Russian meddling. Yes, I doubt it very much. I can think of a few reasons why someone opposed to Trump might manufacture the story. I can think of a few reasons why someone who supports Trump might manufacture the story. The story could be partly or fully true. The story could be false but the original author believed it to be true for a variety of reasons. But I doubt very much that the US intelligence services were the creators of this. It’s way too clumsy and hamfisted even for them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/303 "2017-01-12T16:04:39Z")
Well, Mr. Trump you better start growing a thicker skin because this is just the beginning. You wanted to be president, and you got it. This sort of thing is part of the deal. If you don’t like it, you can quit. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/304 "2017-01-12T16:21:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, Mr. Trump you better start growing a thicker skin because this is just the beginning. You wanted to be president, and you got it. This sort of thing is part of the deal. If you don’t like it, you can quit. Pence is about the only person _worse_ than Trump for the job (okay, Ted Cruz would have been worse than either). Keep plodding along, Mr. Trump! Russian piss-blackmail is infinitely preferable to a guy who electrocutes gay kids and starts AIDS epidemics for fun. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/305 "2017-01-12T16:29:51Z")
That’s not “electrocuting” that’s electro_therapy_. Its part of widely acclaimed “aversion therapy” approach, teaching you to hate what you feel and thus return you to mental health. Or just make you mental. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/306 "2017-01-12T16:44:29Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Does anyone really doubt that this report was deliberately leaked by someone in the intelligence community in an attempt to damage Trump? … Or maybe leaked by Republicans. [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-steele-idUSKBN14W0HN](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-steele-idUSKBN14W0HN) “Steele was initially hired by FusionGPS, a Washington, DC-based political research firm, to investigate Trump on behalf of unidentified Republicans who wanted to stop Trump’s bid for the GOP nomination.” Ha ha- leaked. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/307 "2017-01-12T17:10:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Hey, we’re having fun, and Trump isn’t. That’s a good day in my book. This isn’t a healthy opinion, and I wish I didn’t share it. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/308 "2017-01-12T18:05:48Z")
Despite what Trump’s Baghdad Bobs, here and elsewhere, would have you believe, there are [four sources](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/bbcs-paul-wood-there-are-four-sources-possible-trump-russia-blackmail) for the Trump kompromat allegations. Those may or may not ultimately trace back to one informant and the information is still unverified, but it’s certainly not one person, or even one intelligence community, investigating these allegations just because it inconveniences Trump. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/309 "2017-01-12T19:09:38Z")
Screw all this piddly nonsense about golden showers. Haven’t any of you read all 35 pages of the dossier? There are some really serious allegations in there. Like this: > [@](#): > > In terms of the substance of their discussion, SECHIN’s associate said that the Rosneft President was so keen to lift personal and corporate western sanctions imposed on the company, that he offered PAGE/TRUMP’s associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatised) stake in Rosneft in return. PAGE had expressed interest and confirmed that were TRUMP elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted. [From here, page 30.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html) In other words, Trump advisor and oil industry consultant [Carter Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page) allegedly told [Igor Sechin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sechin), a close ally of Putin and head of [Rosneft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosneft), the Russian state oil company, that in return for a huge bribe, Trump would lift sanctions on Russia. And just in case you’re thinking Trump didn’t know about or approve any of this, on page 31 we read: > [@](#): > > SECHIN’s associate opined that although PAGE had not stated it explicitly to SECHIN, he had clearly implied that in terms of his comment on TRUMP’s intention to lift Russian sanctions if elected president, **he was speaking with the Republican candidate’s authority**. [Emphasis mine.] Then there’s Trump paying for the hackers of the DNC. Pages 34 and 35 allege that Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen (who has denied ever being in Prague) met there with Kremlin operatives to discuss > [@](#): > > …how deniable cash payments were to be made to hackers who had worked in Europe under Kremlin direction against the CLINTON campaign and various contingencies for covering up these operations and Moscow’s secret liaison with the TRUMP team more generally. So the allegation is not only that the Kremlin coordinated the hacking of the DNC (which Trump strongly denied for months, but has finally admitted), but did so with the knowledge and cooperation of the Trump campaign, and that **Trump paid for at least parts of it** , and made plans to cover it up in case Clinton was elected. IANA consitutional lawyer, but perhaps someone here who is can enlighten us as to the possible charges against Trump and his campaign officials if these allegations are true. At the very least, an independent special counsel needs to be appointed to investigate these charges before Trump is inaugurated and he and the Republican congress try to sweep all this under the rug. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/310 "2017-01-12T19:11:15Z")
Can we actually do such investigations of a sovereign power, like Exxon? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/311 "2017-01-12T19:12:31Z")
ECT, (electroconvulsive therapy) is not an aversion therapy - patients are sedated for the procedure, there is no physical discomfort associated with the procedure (although pt’s not uncommonly complain of headaches). Shocking someone to make them feel pain as part of “aversion therapy” (to try to turn a gay kid straight, for example) isn’t a properly recognized therapy at all. It’s torture. OK, now back to the prostitutes! ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/312 "2017-01-12T19:20:13Z")
> **[Donald Trump dossier: intelligence sources vouch for author's credibility](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author)** > > Ex-MI6 officer Christopher Steele, named as writer of Donald Trump memo, is ‘highly regarded professional’ A nice piece about the ex-MI6 operative who wrote the dossier. He certainly seems a credible and experienced person: > [@](#): > > The former Foreign Office official who has known Steele for 25 years and considers him a friend said: “The idea his work is fake or a cowboy operation is false, completely untrue. Chris is an experienced and highly regarded professional. He’s not the sort of person who will simply pass on gossip.” > > The official added: “If he puts something in a report, he believes there’s sufficient credibility in it for it to be worth considering. Chris is a very straight guy. He could not have survived in the job he was in if he had been prone to flights of fancy or doing things in an ill-considered way.” > > That is the way the CIA and the FBI, not to mention the British government, regarded him, too. It’s not hard to see why. > > A Cambridge graduate, Steele was one of the more eminent Russia specialists for the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6). The Guardian understands he focused on Soviet affairs after joining the agency, and spent two years living in Moscow in the early 1990s. Without hard evidence we can’t take the dossier at face value but it’s also pretty silly to dismiss it as fake news. It needs to be investigated thoroughly preferably through a bi-partisan commission. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/313 "2017-01-12T19:30:16Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Then there’s Trump paying for the hackers of the DNC. Pages 34 and 35 allege that Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen (who has denied ever being in Prague) met there with Kremlin operatives to discuss > So the allegation is not only that the Kremlin coordinated the hacking of the DNC (which Trump strongly denied for months, but has finally admitted), but did so with the knowledge and cooperation of the Trump campaign, and that **Trump paid for at least parts of it** , and made plans to cover it up in case Clinton was elected. To me, this seems like the phoniest part. Truth is that in general I don’t get why the Russians would need any sort of help from Trump to hack anything. What does Trump have to offer? But money is least of all. Trump is a pretty rich guy as individuals go, but we’re talking about the Russian government. The notion that the Russian government couldn’t afford to pay for some hackers unless Trump chipped in seems ludicrous to me. > [@Lantern](#): > > [Donald Trump dossier: intelligence sources vouch for author's credibility | Donald Trump | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author) > > A nice piece about the ex-MI6 operative who wrote the dossier. He certainly seems a credible and experienced person: Here’s the problem. There’s a huge difference, IMO, between a guy whose job is to “find out what’s going on over there” and a guy whose job is “find out that specific facts are true”. You can have a guy who a credible and experienced person etc., whose info will be reliable as long as his job is to “find the most reliable info possible”. But if you take that same guy and give him the job of “dig up as much dirt on So-and-so as possible”, then he’s going to have to go with what he can get, even if it’s a lot less reliable. So I don’t think this guy’s credibility as an intelligence op carries over into his opposition research. And it’s not like the guy is vouching for this info either. All he’s saying is “here’s what anonymous sources are saying”. All his credibility goes to believing that yes, anonymous sources are in fact saying that. But that doesn’t carry over to the validity of the info itself. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/314 "2017-01-12T19:32:14Z")
At least the Trumpees have quieted down some with yesterday’s initial marching orders: “4Chan trolled the CIA!! It was a piece of fanfiction!!! lol!” Today it’s something something about Ukraine…we’ll see what tomorrow brings. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/315 "2017-01-12T19:42:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You can have a guy who a credible and experienced person etc., whose info will be reliable as long as his job is to “find the most reliable info possible”. But if you take that same guy and give him the job of “dig up as much dirt on So-and-so as possible”, then he’s going to have to go with what he can get, even if it’s a lot less reliable. > > So I don’t think this guy’s credibility as an intelligence op carries over into his opposition research. > > And it’s not like the guy is vouching for this info either. All he’s saying is “here’s what anonymous sources are saying”. All his credibility goes to believing that yes, anonymous sources are in fact saying that. But that doesn’t carry over to the validity of the info itself. Yeah but remember this guy is running a business and presumably his clients want real dirt not just fake stuff from some random sources so he has every reason to use credible sources and he clearly has the experience and intellect to judge their credibility. That doesn’t mean everything in the dossier is true but that at least some of it may be and is therefore worth investigating in more detail. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/316 "2017-01-12T19:48:56Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Yeah but remember this guy is running a business and presumably his clients want real dirt not just fake stuff from some random sources so he has every reason to use credible sources and he clearly has the experience and intellect to judge their credibility. Again, he has to go with what’s there. If he had credible information then he would go with that. But if his job is to dig up dirt and the best he could get was not credible, then that’s going to be preferable to saying “sorry, couldn’t come up with anything”. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t mean everything in the dossier is true but that at least some of it may be and is therefore worth investigating in more detail. Might. Question is if you believe as a matter of public policy it’s a good idea to have full scale investigations of presidents based on anonymous info of this sort. ISTM that this is a recipe for non-stop investigations of presidents, triggered by foreign actors, local political opponents, or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/317 "2017-01-12T19:51:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To me, this seems like the phoniest part. > > Truth is that in general I don’t get why the Russians would need any sort of help from Trump to hack anything. What does Trump have to offer? Culpability. If he has direct financial involvement, even to a trivial degree that Russia could have easily paid for, that gives them more leverage over him. Hypothetically, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/318 "2017-01-12T19:52:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Might. Question is if you believe as a matter of public policy it’s a good idea to have full scale investigations of presidents based on anonymous info of this sort. ISTM that this is a recipe for non-stop investigations of presidents, triggered by foreign actors, local political opponents, or anyone else. I’d be okay with a Benghazi of scrutiny. Even a half-Benghazi. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/319 "2017-01-12T19:52:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Culpability. If he has direct financial involvement, even to a trivial degree that Russia could have easily paid for, that gives them more leverage over him. > > Hypothetically, of course. But there’s risk for them, in that it increases the likelihood that they’d get caught. But more than that, what plausible reason could they give Trump? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/320 "2017-01-12T19:57:17Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > To me, this seems like the phoniest part. > > Truth is that in general I don’t get why the Russians would need any sort of help from Trump to hack anything. What does Trump have to offer? > > But money is least of all. Trump is a pretty rich guy as individuals go, but we’re talking about the Russian government. The notion that the Russian government couldn’t afford to pay for some hackers unless Trump chipped in seems ludicrous to me.Here’s the problem. All I know about espionage I’ve learned from reading John LeCarre, and I daresay that the same is true for most of us here. So as to why Trump would pay for the hackers, I don’t know. One possibility that occurs to me is that it’s part of the Kremlin’s 'kompromat" operation: they tell Trump that if he helps pay, they’ll get some extra good dirt for him. They don’t _need_ the money (although if a chump is willing to pay, why not let him?), and they get more to blackmail him with. (On preview: what \*\*Bryan Ekers \*\*said.) > [@](#): > > There’s a huge difference, IMO, between a guy whose job is to “find out what’s going on over there” and a guy whose job is “find out that specific facts are true”. > > You can have a guy who a credible and experienced person etc., whose info will be reliable as long as his job is to “find the most reliable info possible”. But if you take that same guy and give him the job of “dig up as much dirt on So-and-so as possible”, then he’s going to have to go with what he can get, even if it’s a lot less reliable. > > So I don’t think this guy’s credibility as an intelligence op carries over into his opposition research. > > And it’s not like the guy is vouching for this info either. All he’s saying is “here’s what anonymous sources are saying”. All his credibility goes to believing that yes, anonymous sources are in fact saying that. But that doesn’t carry over to the validity of the info itself. As **Fubaya** said above, “This is what raw HUMINT looks like.” Steele’s company does oppo research. Their reputation depends on attaining a certain level of reliability, not just making shit up or spreading gossip. The “anonymous sources” are known to the author, and by repeating their claims in the dossier he is giving them at least a tentative validation. He’s not just saying any old thing just to get paid. (On preview: what **Lantern** said. I need to write faster.) > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Might. Question is if you believe as a matter of public policy it’s a good idea to have full scale investigations of presidents based on anonymous info of this sort. ISTM that this is a recipe for non-stop investigations of presidents, triggered by foreign actors, local political opponents, or anyone else. Another of the interesting revelations of the dossier is that all the hacking of the DNC by the Russians didn’t turn up anything more embarrassing about Clinton (to say nothing of criminal) than what was made public last summer: they wanted to beat Sanders and then Trump. No hijinks in hotel rooms, no bribes. So this might only be a problem for certain types of candidates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846.md?page=17)