# Leaked report of Russian blackmail of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846 "2017-01-10T23:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/601 "2017-02-15T17:48:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know if it’s true that Trump only looks after himself or not, buy even if he does, this embarrasses, not just Pence, but the whole administration, which is bad for Trump, and it also shows that Flynn is the kind of person who’s willing to lie to cover his ass at the expense of Pence, which means he’d do it at the expense of Trump. > > All the other lies and spinning… crowd size at the inauguration, bad facts about terrorism and immigration, and so on, are lies against the outside to try to support the administration. This is a lie against the administration. I don’t know if I buy this distinction. There was a perception that Flynn talking about sanctions to the Russian ambassador was embarrassing to the administration, so lying about it seems very much in line with other lies to “support the administration”. If anything this lie was much harder to disprove than other much more flagrant lies. I can see why Pence was upset but at the same time Trump wouldn’t mind if Pence’s credibility was damaged because that would make him less of a threat to him. This sacking makes Trump look weak which seems a bigger problem for him than the original lie. His enemies have scented blood and will be encouraged to move in for the kill. His staff will be discouraged and wonder if they are next. Trump is fairly shrewd about such things so I assume he had some good reason to sack Flynn but I don’t really see it in the stuff that been reported so far. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/602 "2017-02-15T17:50:33Z")
Anyone else think what we’re seeing right now is a cat and mouse game? Someone is sitting on top of a lot of damning intelligence–intercepted calls, wiretaps, leaks from trusted sources collected over several weeks–and this someone knows exactly what the truth is. In the time between Flynn’s Russian calls and his resignation, all kinds of incriminating things likely have been communicated from him to Trump and vice versa…and the person (or persons) would know all of this too. Okay, so now we’re watching the mice lie and try to obfuscate their way out of trouble, but since the truth is actually a known thing, it is just ineffectual blather that only pacifies Trump supporters and sympathizers. Eventually the cat in this game is going to pounce, and they will be using the mice’s own lies to ensnare them. I have to laugh at some of the speculation downplaying what these shenanigans portend. If this was just about Flynn lying to Pence, dude would still be working; Trump could care less about Pence or honesty. His removal is 45’s incompetent attempt to distance himself from a scandal bigger than anything the country has ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/603 "2017-02-15T17:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > …That is exactly what he was talking about. Not “debts”. So, that’s his big real estate secret! People just give him money, and he doesn’t owe them anything! Friggin’ brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/604 "2017-02-15T17:55:40Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > For very high-value condos? Yes. > > [http://www.12news.com/news/nation-now/trumps-soft-spot-for-russia-wealthy-condo-buyers/371250235](http://www.12news.com/news/nation-now/trumps-soft-spot-for-russia-wealthy-condo-buyers/371250235) > > Dolly Lenz, a real estate broker in New York, said she sold about 65 units in Trump World Tower, a condominium tower at 845 U.N. Plaza in Manhattan, to Russian buyers looking for real estate investments in the late 1990s. “I had contacts in Moscow looking to invest in the United States,” Lenz said. “’What do you have to recommend?’ They all wanted to meet Donald. They became very friendly.” > > That’s just one example. Trump had one deal in Miami where he bought a property for $40M, renovated it then sold it for $100M to a Russian billionaire. Fair. Minus further information, I’ll consider that piece of evidence to be unsubstantiated and withdraw it. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/605 "2017-02-15T17:56:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, that’s his big real estate secret! People just give him money, and he doesn’t owe them anything! Friggin’ brilliant! People give him money to buy properties he builds. After they do, he doesn’t owe them anything. Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/606 "2017-02-15T18:05:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Anyone else think what we’re seeing right now is a cat and mouse game? > > Someone is sitting on top of a lot of damning intelligence–intercepted calls, wiretaps, leaks from trusted sources collected over several weeks–and this someone knows exactly what the truth is. In the time between Flynn’s Russian calls and his resignation, all kinds of incriminating things likely have been communicated from him to Trump and vice versa…and the person (or persons) would know all of this too. Okay, so now we’re watching the mice lie and try to obfuscate their way out of trouble, but since the truth is actually a known thing, it is just ineffectual blather that only pacifies Trump supporters and sympathizers. > > Eventually the cat in this game is going to pounce, and they will be using the mice’s own lies to ensnare them. > . I agree. And that is why Trump is currently foaming at the mouth trying to change the topic away from the lies and the meetings with Russians, and protecting Flynn for weeks… And toward the Most. Important. Thing. … Which is to expose the person who has been telling the truth and making Trump look bad. Fuck the country. Fuck national security. Fuck the truth. Trump’s only focus right now is to stop the person who is telling the country the truth. **Before more damaging stuff comes out.** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/607 "2017-02-15T18:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > People give him money to buy properties he builds. After they do, he doesn’t owe them anything. Correct. Your first sentence is a wonder. Are you saying he builds the properties, and then sells them, but doesn’t borrow the money to build them in the first place? Or what, perzackly? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/608 "2017-02-15T18:12:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Your first sentence is a wonder. Are you saying he builds the properties, and then sells them, but doesn’t borrow the money to build them in the first place? Or what, perzackly? Of course he borrows money to build. All builders do. The claim was that he borrowed money from Russian banks. Where is any indication that that happened? There is a lot of evidence that there were high-value Russian buyers of Trump properties. There is nothing that would point to any Russian lenders. Maybe you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/609 "2017-02-15T18:18:06Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The claim was that he borrowed money from Russian banks. Where is any indication that that happened? Buried in his financial and tax records, that he refuses to show anybody. Because he’s so modest. Trump’s Russian connections (financial and otherwise) are going to trickle out over the coming weeks and months. drip. drip. drip. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/610 "2017-02-15T18:18:24Z")
Senators Graham and Corker are calling for an investigation into Trump’s contacts with Russia prior to the election. Graham also mentions investigating the leaks. I think I heard Sen. Blunt on the radio this morning also calling for an investigation. Two or three prominent Republican Senators wanting to investigate Trump… this could be a good sign. > **[Graham: If Trump Camp Talked With Russia, We Need A Select Committee](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/graham-select-committee-russia)** > > Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Wednesday said that if there is truth to reports that aides for President Donald Trump's campaign were in contact with Russian officials ahead of the election… In another thread, I said Trump wasn’t going to be impeached, ever. I said he’d be with us for four painful years. But, I’ve been wrong about _almost_ everything for the past 18 months (I did call Flynn’s ouster a few hours before it happened). I hope I was wrong about Trump’s ability to stay in office. Dare I dream? Pence 2017! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/611 "2017-02-15T18:19:13Z")
Google “Trump borrowing money Russia”. “Indications” you want, you will get. You are, of course, free to dismiss them out of hand, or contradict them with brilliant citation. Please proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/612 "2017-02-15T18:20:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Google “Trump borrowing money Russia”. “Indications” you want, you will get. You are, of course, free to dismiss them out of hand, or contradict them with brilliant citation. Please proceed. Google “abducted by aliens”. If that’s your level of proof. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/613 "2017-02-15T18:24:21Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > …Dare I dream? Pence 2017! Do dare, do dare, all the livelong day. Impeach? No, much easier. A word in his shell like ear, a total and thorough investigation into his holdings. The hint, the suggestion that anything found to be less than totally kosher will be subject to draconian penalties, liens, forfeitures of assets. Maybe he could end up broke, living under a golden bridge? Trump is his money. Without it, he is but a hole wrapped in skin. Suggest that if he quietly resigns, all of that threat will go away. Make sure his kids know. Hit him where he lives. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/614 "2017-02-15T18:27:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Google “abducted by aliens”. If that’s your level of proof. I am undone by the sheer brilliance of your analysis. Too many for me, I fold. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/615 "2017-02-15T18:40:12Z")
I don’t understand the topic well at all, but AIUI, the 2014 sanctions on Russia put a lot of restrictions on the ability of Americans to get loans from American or EU banks for projects in Russia. This would increase the likelihood that Trump is in hock to Russian banks. I may well be wrong about that, and I’d welcome correction if so. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/616 "2017-02-15T18:50:45Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I don’t understand the topic well at all, but AIUI, the 2014 sanctions on Russia put a lot of restrictions on the ability of Americans to get loans from American or EU banks for projects in Russia. This would increase the likelihood that Trump is in hock to Russian banks. I may well be wrong about that, and I’d welcome correction if so. What projects in Russia does Trump have? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/617 "2017-02-15T18:54:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Anyone else think what we’re seeing right now is a cat and mouse game? > > Someone is sitting on top of a lot of damning intelligence–intercepted calls, wiretaps, leaks from trusted sources collected over several weeks–and this someone knows exactly what the truth is. In the time between Flynn’s Russian calls and his resignation, all kinds of incriminating things likely have been communicated from him to Trump and vice versa…and the person (or persons) would know all of this too. Okay, so now we’re watching the mice lie and try to obfuscate their way out of trouble, but since the truth is actually a known thing, it is just ineffectual blather that only pacifies Trump supporters and sympathizers. > > Eventually the cat in this game is going to pounce, and they will be using the mice’s own lies to ensnare them. > > I have to laugh at some of the speculation downplaying what these shenanigans portend. If this was just about Flynn lying to Pence, dude would still be working; Trump could care less about Pence or honesty. His removal is 45’s incompetent attempt to distance himself from a scandal bigger than anything the country has ever seen. I think you’re right, and for some reason, the mouse seems to be trying to provoke the cat. Flynn tried to claim that the calls didn’t touch on sanctions, until the fact that those calls, made by a private citizen on a personal or campaign device, were recorded and transcribed. How inconvenient. Is Trump unable to grasp that there may be transcriptions of every phone call he has made over the past few years? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/618 "2017-02-15T19:07:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > What projects in Russia does Trump have? I wonder who owns the 19.5% stake in the Russian oil company Rosneft? We’ll never know, since the shell company in the Caymans won’t be releasing ownership information anytime soon. drip. drip. drip. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/619 "2017-02-15T19:09:30Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Is Trump unable to grasp that there may be transcriptions of every phone call he has made over the past few years? Oh, I think he knows. It’s just that his strategy for dealing with untoward events is the same as he’s always used; Bully people, call them names, threaten to sue, put them on the defensive. Trouble is, he is now trying this with all of the media, as well as all of the US intelligence agencies. Whoops. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846/620 "2017-02-15T19:14:27Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > Can you detail the workings of the Congress Republicans, not only for the last 6 years, but now, the last three weeks, and come to any conclusion other than the one I have reached? Yes. I can come up with plenty of valid reasons (not all of which I agree with) why Republicans are acting the way they are. Don’t assign hatred and villainy to everybody who disagrees with you; that path leads to accusations of porn rings out of pizza parlors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaked-report-of-russian-blackmail-of-trump/776846.md?page=32)