# Learn the gorram difference between a statistical claim and a fact! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189 "2006-03-13T17:06:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/1 "2006-03-13T17:06:51Z")
You know what’s been really getting under my skin lately? People who make claims about individual cases based on statistics, without looking at the individual case at all. Let’s take the example that crystallized this peeve in my mind: an utter horror of a book by the name of She Comes First : The Thinking Man’s Guide to Pleasuring a Woman. Picked it up in a bookstore, intrigued by the tasty fresh papaya on the cover, and started to read it. Put it back by chapter 4. Now, leaving aside the author’s projection issues, the biggest problem I have with the claims of the book is that because a statistically significant percentage of women do not regularly acheive orgasm via intercourse, it is impossible to pleasure a woman with intercourse. Similarly, since he has some statistics that show that cunnilingus induces orgasm most regularly in women, it is the best way to pleasure any particular woman. He went on to claim that no woman has ever had an orgasm that was not related in some way to clitoral stimulation. What a load of utter bollocks. In many of life’s activities, but especially with sex, the essence of doing it right is in the particular. If you want to learn how to please your lover, then learning what most lovers enjoy is a wonderful starting place. But trying to claim that everyone enjoys a particular activity is just plain stupid, and trying to substitue statistical claims about a population for actually sitting down and talking with your lover about what she enjoys is a shitty way to have sex. It’s not just this book (though it is a particularly egregious example). Discussions of science and medicine also piss me the hell off. The claim that in the general population, a particular drug or treatment is ineffective is a wholly different claim than that in no individual is it effective. Basically, learn that although hundreds of people can tell you things about thousands with a good degree of regularity, they’re a piss-poor way to tell you about individuals. Learn when to rely on statistical arguments, and when to look at what’s in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/2 "2006-03-13T17:10:54Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > Put it back by chapter 4. Learn the gorram difference between a library and a bookshop. 😉 Shiny. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/3 "2006-03-13T17:16:53Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > …it is impossible to pleasure a woman with intercourse. Really? Wow, I had no idea. I should tell my girlfriend that she’s really not having orgasms when we’re having intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/4 "2006-03-13T17:26:15Z")
Fortunately, it’s a fact that men who use made up science fiction terms in regular conversation will never face the decision about whether to go ahead with cunnilingus or intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/5 "2006-03-13T17:34:49Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Really? Wow, I had no idea. I should tell my girlfriend that she’s really not having orgasms when we’re having intercourse. Maybe she’s faking for your benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/6 "2006-03-13T17:51:58Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Maybe she’s faking for your benefit. Heh heh, nope. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/7 "2006-03-13T18:26:19Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Heh heh, nope. Yeah, _there’s_ an atypical male response. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/8 "2006-03-13T19:00:12Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Yeah, _there’s_ an atypical male response. Look, a **real man** KNOWS. High five! Yeah! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/9 "2006-03-13T19:17:59Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Heh heh, nope. I am not making any statement about your relationship in particular when I say that this made me laugh. Out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/10 "2006-03-13T19:28:54Z")
[According to the 2000 Orgasm Survey, 72 percent of women have faked at least once in their current or most recent relationship](http://www.slate.com/id/2097396/) ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/11 "2006-03-13T20:12:12Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > [According to the 2000 Orgasm Survey, 72 percent of women have faked at least once in their current or most recent relationship](http://www.slate.com/id/2097396/) And therefore, we can safely conclude that **Lord Ashtar** ’s girlfriend is faking, thus proving the OP’s point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/12 "2006-03-13T20:15:45Z")
This [Guardian article on how to make youself smarter in seven days](http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1723801,00.html) contained this little gem, which made me want to put my fist through my computer monitor: > [@](#): > > However, one man [in a trial run of 15 volunteers] who had gone out on a stag night the evening before the second test found his score 20 per cent down - proving that alcohol damages mental function. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/13 "2006-03-13T20:17:13Z")
Dude, this don’t just happen in the sex books you furtively read in the corners of bookstores, getting all the way through the first four chapters before you were finished with it. It’s one of the favorite feints of local shoddy debators, too. That and its complement: using a statistical anomaly to “disprove” a generality. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/14 "2006-03-13T20:20:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > And therefore, we can safely conclude that **Lord Ashtar** ’s girlfriend is faking, thus proving the OP’s point. 😃 Precisely. It may also mean he shouldn’t be so sure of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/15 "2006-03-13T21:00:52Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > He went on to claim that no woman has ever had an orgasm that was not related in some way to clitoral stimulation. Given that many women who’ve been subjected to clitoridectomy have orgasms during sex, the author’s not just misusing statistics - he’s out and out lying about simple factual matters. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/16 "2006-03-13T21:04:31Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Given that many women who’ve been subjected to clitoridectomy have orgasms during sex, the author’s not just misusing statistics - he’s out and out lying about simple factual matters. Or all those women could have been faking it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/17 "2006-03-13T22:20:29Z")
Why on earth would a woman fake a clitoridectomy? And where would they hide it? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/18 "2006-03-13T23:14:20Z")
> [@Doctor Jackson](#): > > Why on earth would a woman fake a clitoridectomy? > > And where would they hide it? Where they always hide it when a man tries to find it. ---
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/19 "2006-03-13T23:43:09Z")
Oh, yay. So I’m an apparent anomaly and freak of nature and now have to be put in a tank for extensive study, right? :rolleyes: Can I slap the author of this book with The Guide to Getting It On? Repeatedly? To keep from offending people with personal experience, I have put the following inside a spoiler box. Seriously, not all women can climax solely from clitoral stimulation, although that can be a major part. Some women, like me, also reach climax from intercourse, and I personally find it more fun anyway. I don’t fake it. I’m not in this to stoke someone’s ego, I’m in it to have fun, and acting of that sort has no place with me. OK, that aside, generalizations of this sort are a very bad idea when one apparently wants to be considered an expert in any topic. It trivializes his or her idea because the assumptions made will show one to be, rather than an expert, an absolute mook. I admit, I have been guilty of these logical fallacies when, yes, I’m trying to be smart. Perhaps if these wannabe experts wished to appear smarter, then they’ll learn not to make these kinds of statiscal assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189/20 "2006-03-13T23:47:10Z")
> [@LadySybil](#): > > OK, that aside, generalizations of this sort are a very bad idea when one apparently wants to be considered an expert in any topic. It trivializes his or her idea because the assumptions made will show one to be, rather than an expert, an absolute mook. I admit, I have been guilty of these logical fallacies when, yes, I’m trying to be smart. Perhaps if these wannabe experts wished to appear smarter, then they’ll learn not to make these kinds of statiscal assumptions. Now, now, sweetie. Don’t you worry your pretty little head about this - you’ll get wrinkles! Us big tough men will do all the boring _thinking_ and tell you how your vulva works so you won’t have to trouble yourself by figuring it out on your own. Well, that’s how _I_ read it when male “sex experts” start making grand claims about exactly how the girly region works. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/learn-the-gorram-difference-between-a-statistical-claim-and-a-fact/348189.md?page=2)