# "Leave Donald Alone!" Pleads His Press Secretary **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125 "2017-01-02T04:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/381 "2017-01-22T21:55:11Z")
[https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/f0032254072c9d4f77ad4d23b3bca932.jpg](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/f0032254072c9d4f77ad4d23b3bca932.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/382 "2017-01-23T04:30:17Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Why am I not even the slightest bit surprised that the moment a tough question shows up, **Starving Artist** fucks off? Are you surprised??? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/383 "2017-01-23T04:34:23Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > May I remind you all that this is a guy who has twice built multi-billion dollar fortunes (once from a billion in the red), created a highly successful game/reality show on television, entered the presidential race as a complete outsider and laid waste to 16 seasoned candidates to secure the nomination, then ran a highly sophisticated and technologically advanced general election campaign to defeat Hillary Clinton. Later today he will become the 45th president of the United States. If you all want to comfort yourselves with these ridiculous claims that he’s a stupid, doddering old loon, knock yourselves out. Reality laughs at you. > > And I wouldn’t necessarily call him devious, **White SIFL** , although he’s certainly capable of it. It’s simply that he plays his games on a level not apparent (and not capable of being apparent) to outside observers. Thus they frequently (or pretty much always) misunderstand what he’s really up to, and/or what goals and accomplishments he’s really trying to achieve. Personally I think Trump is a genius, with insights and an understanding of human nature superior even to that of Steve Jobs, along with the ability to successfully handle issues of immense complexity with relative ease. But that’s not what I’m talking about when I say he’s operating on levels most people don’t understand. It’s not that they’re necessarily incapable of understanding what he’s really doing, it’s just that they aren’t privy to the information that would allow them to do so. So again, they jump to conclusions based on what little they do know, and because they don’t really know what they’re talking about they’re pretty much always proven wrong. Sort of like the football fan who thinks he’s qualified to analyze and pass judgement on the decisions and thinking of coaches and quarterbacks when he doesn’t have the slightest idea of the enormous real world complexity they’re having to contend with. Essentially everyone watching and passing these kinds of judgements on Trump are nothing more than Monday-morning armchair quarterbacks and analysts who have no idea even of the existence of all the things they don’t know. He didn’t build SHIT. He inherited from Daddy, had to be bailed out by Daddy numerous times, went bankrupt numerous times, got sued repeatedly, fucked his partners, contractors, and employees, and never built anything. Other people built, he slapped his name on it, and then he stole the fucking money. He didn’t build SHIT. He fucking STOLE it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/384 "2017-01-23T04:39:13Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Running those casinos into the ground while other casinos in the area were making a ton of money was a brilliant business move that you’re all just too stupid to see… > > Yeah, that’s the ticket! > **[Another Trump-named casino in Atlantic City files for bankruptcy](https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/09/news/companies/trump-bankruptcy/index.html)** > > Trump Taj Mahal is second casino named for, but not owned, by Donald Trump Another Trump-named casino in Atlantic City files for bankruptcy by Aaron Smith @AaronSmithCNN September 9, 2014: 12:39 PM ET Another Atlantic City casino with the Trump name is in trouble. Trump Plaza Associates, the company that runs the Trump Taj Mahal, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Delaware on Tuesday. The Taj Mahal will close on Nov. 13 or shortly thereafter, according to a company spokesman. Another casino owned by the company, the Trump Plaza, is expected to shut down after Sept. 16, costing 1,046 employees their jobs. The company, in its court filing, estimates assets worth between $10 million and $50 million, and liabilities worth between $100 million and $500 million. The documents identified 30 debtors, the most prominent being Thermal Energy Limited Partnership I, an operator of heating and cooling equipment which is owed nearly $3 million. That’s what he does. He makes yuge promises, lines his pockets up front, leaves the wreckage for everyone else to clean up, and then he takes tax breaks on his “loss” too. He’s a cheat and a thief. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/385 "2017-01-23T06:20:23Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > He didn’t build SHIT. > > He inherited from Daddy, had to be bailed out by Daddy numerous times, went bankrupt numerous times, got sued repeatedly, fucked his partners, contractors, and employees, and never built anything. Other people built, he slapped his name on it, and then he stole the fucking money. > > He didn’t build SHIT. He fucking STOLE it. 1. He didn’t go bankrupt ‘numerous’ times. At least not compared to the hundreds of companies he’s owned or controlled. He took four casinos bankrupt once they began to fail in the downturn that affected all the New Jersey casinos. What would you have had him do, keep the doors open until the sheriff came to padlock the doors? At least under the terms of the bankruptcies his creditors retained the option of taking over the properties and attempting to run them profitably themselves, or to sell off what they could and thereby recoup at least some of their investment. 2.Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t rip off contractors, etc. And maybe they took shortcuts and/or performed shoddy work and/or tried to overcharge him. I don’t think either of us has the slightest idea which is truly the case. What is the case is that he continues to obtain financing and contractors and to successfully develop new properties. 1. I’ll buy you a case of beer if you can explain how Trump inherited two multi-billion dollar fortunes from a father who had only built up $300 million in wealth by the time he died in 1999. Trump had already made, lost and rebuilt his multi-billion dollar fortunes by the time his father died, after which he inherited $100 million, which equaled only about 5% of his overall wealth at the time. The claim that Trump inherited his wealth is one of the most stupid claims made on this board. I’ve refuted it again and again and again and yet guess who’s popping up to assert it one more time? Isn’t it your side who’s always harping about how in love they are with the facts? If so, your lib card badly needs to be recalled. But it won’t be of course, because you guys are every bit as prone to spout bullshit in the face of things you don’t like to hear as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/386 "2017-01-23T06:29:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > 1. He didn’t go bankrupt ‘numerous’ times. {…} He took four casinos bankrupt {…} > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > {…} because you guys are every bit as prone to spout bullshit in the face of things you don’t like to hear as anyone else. That umm “anyone else”, that would be you . . . right? UP NEXT: _Four isn’t “numerous”!_ CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/387 "2017-01-23T06:34:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > That umm “anyone else”, that would be you . . . right? > > UP NEXT: _Four isn’t “numerous”!_ > > CMC fnord! A lot of that is also just conjecture and blobiating from Starving A unless Trump releases his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/388 "2017-01-23T06:39:29Z")
The previous promise to release his returns after the election is now inoperative, and, effectively, never existed. Since it is impossible to break a promise that was never made, he did not break a promise. His statements to the effect that being audited prevents him from releasing information is a bold-faced lie, which is not a promise. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/389 "2017-01-23T06:47:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > A lot of that is also just conjecture and blobiating from Starving A unless Trump releases his taxes. Ah, ignorance raises its head once again. Tax returns tell you nothing about a person’s net worth. Given the way taxes are structured and the numerous things that go into calculating them they don’t even tell you much about a person’s true income. As a very simple example, how much of your income do you pay tax on vs. the amount you actually make? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/390 "2017-01-23T06:52:49Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > 1. […] He took four casinos bankrupt once they began to fail in the downturn that affected all the New Jersey casinos. Hmm, that’s not quite the way [_Fortune_ magazine put it](http://fortune.com/2016/03/31/donald-trump-debt-trump-hotels-casinos-atlantic-city/): > [@](#): > > The frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination […] trumpets his success managing his own enterprises, boasting that the businesses in his portfolio have “very low debt and tremendous cash flow.” That example, Trump has declared, demonstrates the “kind of thinking this country needs with $19 trillion in debt, believe me.” > > There’s just one problem with this narrative: Trump’s actual track record as an executive who has overindulged on credit time and again. > > […] Over more than a dozen years heading at the time one of America’s biggest casino operators, Trump showed a penchant for aggressively loading up on debt—way, way more than the business could support. > > Much of the debt was accumulated through a series of self-dealing transactions, in which his public company bought out Trump’s personal stakes in various casinos. Trump made those sales to rescue himself from potentially ruinous personal guarantees, and moved huge portfolios of junk bonds that he couldn’t repay personally onto the newly-formed public company. In one major deal, he also appears to have, in effect, paid himself a highly inflated price. > Related > > In the end, Trump’s myopia for the risk created by all the crushing credit obligations at his businesses punished employees, banks, investors, and bondholders alike—almost everyone but Trump himself. It also tanked Trump’s investment in Atlantic City, a place where Trump says he is “very, very proud” of how he did. […] > > Trump’s operating model for his casino operations can best be summarized thusly: high debt and insufficient cash flow. As chairman, chief shareholder, and sometime CEO of Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts (later named Trump Entertainment Resorts) from 1995 to until early 2009, Trump leveraged his Atlantic City gaming properties to such an extent that even if they’d fared well—which they didn’t—they still wouldn’t have turned a significant profit. […] > > Trump Hotels’ gigantic interest burden almost certainly doomed the company from the start. It never generated sufficient cash flow to pay down any of the principal on its debt—thus violating the first principle of a leveraged buyout, or LBO. […] > > A major reason Trump failed with Trump Hotels is that he engaged in what appear to have been self-dealing moves that ended up crippling his company. > > The problem took two forms. First, Trump sold casino businesses he fully or mainly owned to the new, publicly-traded Trump Hotels that were already so over-leveraged, with such expensive debt, that they could never make enough money to repay bondholders. It was a great way for Trump to escape debt burdens, but it created a huge burden for his shareholders. Second, he made one important sale at a price that appears to have been a lot higher than what a neutral bidder would have paid. > > It was the chronic inability to cover interest expense, and the big dilution caused by self-dealing, that sank Trump Hotels. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > 2.Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t rip off contractors, etc. And maybe they took shortcuts and/or performed shoddy work and/or tried to overcharge him. :dubious: Then what a shame it is that Trump seems to be so bad at picking contractors/employees who **won’t** perform shoddy work and/or try to overcharge him. Based on [the hundreds of lawsuits, liens and judgements against his companies for nonpayment of bills](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282933-report-trump-has-refused-to-pay-hundreds-of-workers), if he’s **not** deliberately stiffing these people to save money, then he’s either had the worst run of luck imaginable or he’s got appalling judgement when it comes to hiring people. (And that’s not counting the “24 violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act for not paying employees minimum wage or overtime pay” since 2005 alone). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/391 "2017-01-23T07:00:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The previous promise to release his returns after the election is now inoperative, and, effectively, never existed. Since it is impossible to break a promise that was never made, he did not break a promise. His statements to the effect that being audited prevents him from releasing information is a bold-faced lie, which is not a promise. Indeed, but then it means that Trump is now open to charges of trying to hide huuuge debts that would make a mockery of his statements were he claimed that he was worth about 10 billion dollars. SA recently did linked at articles were others estimated that trump is actually worth 3-4 Billion, and a lot in not really easy to monetize business. SA just never noticed that it means that Trump also did lie about how much he actually had. His refusal to release his taxes leaves a festering issue that is not going away. And it will remain relevant as his actual charity contributions to his defunct foundation continue to be looked at; and every year people will be reminded of this when it is expected that the President post his returns. In yet another disturbing similarity with Nixon he also refused to released his taxes and still won… only to end up releasing four years of tax returns later while in office after facing additional questions over his finances. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/392 "2017-01-23T07:09:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ah, ignorance raises its head once again. Tax returns tell you nothing about a person’s net worth. Given the way taxes are structured and the numerous things that go into calculating them they don’t even tell you much about a person’s true income. As a very simple example, how much of your income do you pay tax on vs. the amount you actually make? Actually you are indeed, besides blobiating, also wrong. Shawn Tully at Fortune Magazine explains: > **[Why Donald Trump’s Tax Returns May Prove He’s Not That Rich](https://fortune.com/2016/03/02/donald-trump-tax-returns-income/)** > > The GOP frontrunner appears to have mixed up income and revenue. > [@](#): > > Pope Francis, who recently exchanged barbs with Trump over immigration, has bravely promised to open the Vatican’s books. Trump sounds less righteous in claiming that he won’t publicly release his tax returns while he’s being audited by the IRS, but does pledge to eventually make the highly anticipated filings public. > > Until then, voters can glean a great deal of information from two sets of documents the Trump campaign has already provided: A balance sheet released in June, when Trump declared his candidacy for President, and a 92-page Personal Financial Disclosure (PFD) form submitted to the Federal Election Commission a month later. > > **Neither document is as telling as a tax return would be. But when closely read together, you can learn a great deal about Trump’s financial affairs. Here’s the most concerning thing I learned: Trump appears to have overstated his income, by a lot, which could be the reason he has so far tried to avoid releasing his returns.** > [@](#): > > We should also look at a scenario where Trump earns a more normal 20% operating margin. Then he’d make $86 million on his businesses after interest, plus the estimated $37 million in interest and cap gains, for a total of $123 million. > > **Here’s the bottom line: Without knowing how much Trump’s business pays in taxes, it’s impossible to calculate his net worth.** If he pays no tax, and boasts a 30% operating margin, his empire could be valued at $3 billion, plus cash of $300 million, or $3.3 billion. That’s assuming a rich multiple of 20 times earnings. If the operating margin is far lower, and he pays lots of tax, the number would be greatly reduced. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/393 "2017-01-23T14:46:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The previous promise to release his returns after the election is now inoperative Didn’t you get the memo? The new label of choice is “alternative facts”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/394 "2017-01-23T15:12:04Z")
The [lead article in Slate today](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/cover_story/2017/01/trump_sold_america_a_miracle_cure_it_will_fail_he_ll_get_off_for_free.html) provides a pretty good breakdown of the **Starving Artist** mentality and why I remain pessimistic of any future breaking point when Trump’s lies, incompetence and corruption will turn his followers against him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/395 "2017-01-23T15:26:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The [lead article in Slate today](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/cover_story/2017/01/trump_sold_america_a_miracle_cure_it_will_fail_he_ll_get_off_for_free.html) provides a pretty good breakdown of the **Starving Artist** mentality and why I remain pessimistic of any future breaking point when Trump’s lies, incompetence and corruption will turn his followers against him. ‘It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.’ - Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/396 "2017-01-23T16:00:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve long said that Trump is rarely doing what he appears to be doing on the surface. He’s usually operating several levels above it with results in mind that are not readily apparent to outside observers. Or indeed any other observers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/397 "2017-01-23T16:35:25Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Didn’t you get the memo? The new label of choice is “alternative facts”. I have a fond affection for the classics. Ron Zeigler or Kellyanne? Bach or Beethoven? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/398 "2017-01-23T16:37:04Z")
Good Lord, _Fortune_? Why not cite _Democratic Underground_ if you’re gonna rely on extreme left sources? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/399 "2017-01-23T17:14:07Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The [lead article in Slate today](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/cover_story/2017/01/trump_sold_america_a_miracle_cure_it_will_fail_he_ll_get_off_for_free.html) provides a pretty good breakdown of the **Starving Artist** mentality and why I remain pessimistic of any future breaking point when Trump’s lies, incompetence and corruption will turn his followers against him. The thing I’m not getting is that **S\_A** has repeatedly claimed that he didn’t vote for Trump. Yet he, as is his fashion, has spent months, dozens of posts and thousands of words, berating other posters who…likewise didn’t vote for Trump. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125/400 "2017-01-23T17:30:16Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > The thing I’m not getting is that **S\_A** has repeatedly claimed that he didn’t vote for Trump. Yet he, as is his fashion, has spent months, dozens of posts and thousands of words, berating other posters who…likewise didn’t vote for Trump. What’s up with that? Because Trump is now a Republican President. And **Starving Artist** ’s attitude towards a Republican President is invariably… well, I don’t do obscene metaphors, but you get what I mean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-donald-alone-pleads-his-press-secretary/776125.md?page=21)