# Leave the fork in her: Clinton's still done **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170 "2008-03-05T12:43:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/381 "2008-03-12T15:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Yes, I was, and I inadvertently used percentages instead of delegates because of the way it’s listed at [RCP](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html#moreraces) . The table above shows delegates, and the second table shows percentages, but they’re not labeled. That brings up another question I have, though. How does Clinton leading in North Carolina not make sense? I mean, I understand why Illinois, Arkansas, and New York went the way they did. But how do people predict the other states without any poll data? [/QUOTE] In some cases, to put it bluntly, they’re going by racial demographics. Obama is winning 90+% of the black vote in virtually every state. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/382 "2008-03-12T15:06:56Z")
It’s almost to the point where Hillary could win every single Pennsylvania delegate and not catch Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/383 "2008-03-12T15:13:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In some cases, to put it bluntly, they’re going by racial demographics. Obama is winning 90+% of the black vote in virtually every state. [/QUOTE] I figured that, but there’s got to be more than that. I’ve never been to Idaho or Wisconsin, but I don’t imagine them as the types of states that have a significant black population. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/384 "2008-03-12T15:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I figured that, but there’s got to be more than that. I’ve never been to Idaho or Wisconsin, but I don’t imagine them as the types of states that have a significant black population. [/QUOTE] Wisconsin is 6% black, Idaho is 0.7%. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/385 "2008-03-12T15:21:09Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] Wisconsin is 6% black, Idaho is 0.7%. [/QUOTE] Exactly, and argument that Obama will only get the minority votes is full of straw. If he does well in Miss and they have a heavy black population so what. He kicked ass in predominently white states as well. What could that mean Geraldine? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/386 "2008-03-12T15:30:58Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] Wisconsin is 6% black, Idaho is 0.7%. [/QUOTE] 😕 He won Wisconsin by 3 times, and Idaho by 885 times those percentages, respectively. There’s obviously more going on than just people that happen to have dark skin voting for Obama. My question is, what is it? This question is probably parallel to, “What makes some states red and some blue?”, although I’m admittedly clueless on that, too. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/387 "2008-03-12T15:49:36Z")
My zipcode (which maps fairly well to my voting precinct) in Arlingon, VA is only about 2.5% black, but my precinct went almost 64% for Obama. Something I heard about previously, but haven’t heard about lately, is how “uneducated” white voters favor Clinton. In Ohio, apparently, this was a difference-maker. I’m not sure why that is; I’d have thought that sort of demographic would be more prevalent in the South. Perhaps an Ohioan could illuminate me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/388 "2008-03-12T16:21:40Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] How does Clinton leading in North Carolina not make sense? I mean, I understand why Illinois, Arkansas, and New York went the way they did. But how do people predict the other states without any poll data? [/QUOTE] In the case of NC at least, the expectation of an Obama win is based on [poll data](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nc/north_carolina_democratic_primary-275.html). ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/389 "2008-03-12T16:26:07Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Something I heard about previously, but haven’t heard about lately, is how “uneducated” white voters favor Clinton. In Ohio, apparently, this was a difference-maker. I’m not sure why that is; I’d have thought that sort of demographic would be more prevalent in the South. Perhaps an Ohioan could illuminate me. [/QUOTE] Ohio (and PA) are factory states. Factories produce a lot of low-skilled jobs that don’t require bachelor degrees. There you go. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/390 "2008-03-12T17:50:00Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Ohio (and PA) are factory states. Factories produce a lot of low-skilled jobs that don’t require bachelor degrees. There you go. [/QUOTE] Kinda sorta. What lies between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is one giant ass field. Same results, different turnpike. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/391 "2008-03-12T18:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha] Kinda sorta. What lies between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is one giant ass field. Same results, different turnpike. [/QUOTE] Hey, hey, hey! There are some amazing flowers growing among those asses, dammit! Hmpf! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/392 "2008-03-12T18:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha] Kinda sorta. What lies between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is one giant ass field. Same results, different turnpike. [/QUOTE] James Carville’s oft quoted line is that PA is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/393 "2008-03-12T18:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] James Carville’s oft quoted line is that PA is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between. [/QUOTE] I thought that’s what she just said… ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/394 "2008-03-12T18:31:34Z")
I am picturing rolling hills with row upon row of bright pink asses stretching to the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/395 "2008-03-12T18:56:36Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] I am picturing rolling hills with row upon row of bright pink asses stretching to the horizon. [/QUOTE] The legendary ass fields of Pennsylvania! It’s where we picked Rendell… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/396 "2008-03-12T19:08:41Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] I am picturing rolling hills with row upon row of bright pink asses stretching to the horizon. [/QUOTE] Maybe they should change their slogan from “You’ve got a friend in Pennsylvania” to “Come pick yourself a piece of ass in Pennsylvania.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/397 "2008-03-12T19:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The legendary ass fields of Pennsylvania! It’s where we picked Rendell… [/QUOTE] The fields of ass where you picked Rendell and, dare I say, plowed Santorum. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/398 "2008-03-12T20:04:26Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] That brings up another question I have, though. How does Clinton leading in North Carolina not make sense? I mean, I understand why Illinois, Arkansas, and New York went the way they did. But how do people predict the other states without any poll data? [/QUOTE] I’ve spent my whole life in North Carolina. Democrats in the state tend to be African-American or well-educated whites, both groups that skew towards Obama. Your working-class white voters, who in states like Michigan might be Clinton supporters, tend to be staunch Republicans. There’s not a labor vote to speak of here. Also, anecdotally, I seldom hear a kind word about Clinton around here from Democrats, Republicans, or independents. There’s a huge swath of folks from across the political spectrum who, rightly or wrongly, _reeeally_ don’t like her. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/399 "2008-03-12T20:17:24Z")
Things just keep looking grimmer for Clinton… [US Flag Officers Endorse Obama](http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/obama-receives-endorsement-of-flag-officers-from-army-navy-and,312681.shtml) > [@](#): > > "Those of us who have served, worn the cloth of our nation, and gone into harm’s way know that to be successful we must have the strongest sense of trust in our Commander in Chief. We must be confident that he or she has listened to the best possible advice, that he or she has garnered the best possible information from all possible sources, that he or she has analyzed and weighed all the possible consequences and outcomes, and that he or she has made the decision to exert military force as a last possible resort,” said Admiral (Ret.) Robert “William” Williamson (USN). “Of this I am certain: Senator Obama will do all of those things and much more to ensure the safety and freedom of our citizens, our allies, and coalition partners. He has all the great qualities and attributes required to carry out the most difficult duties of the Presidency. So much for the “Commander-in-Chief threshold.” ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170/400 "2008-03-12T20:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=burundi] I’ve spent my whole life in North Carolina. Democrats in the state tend to be African-American or well-educated whites, both groups that skew towards Obama. Your working-class white voters, who in states like Michigan might be Clinton supporters, tend to be staunch Republicans. There’s not a labor vote to speak of here. Also, anecdotally, I seldom hear a kind word about Clinton around here from Democrats, Republicans, or independents. There’s a huge swath of folks from across the political spectrum who, rightly or wrongly, _reeeally_ don’t like her. [/QUOTE] Yep. Especially since the population centers - Greensboro, the Triad - are filled with young university types. Charlotte has UNC-Ch, which isn’t a lot, but it makes up the difference with yuppies and upper middle class whites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leave-the-fork-in-her-clintons-still-done/440170.md?page=21)