But is it “fair game” to misrepresent the facts, tell only half the story, and whip up a frenzied mob against the kid and his family?
Yes, let’s examine their situation fully, since they’ve volunteered themselves as a case study:
“They live in a wealthy neighborhood.” They bought the house for $55,000, it is now assessed at $255,000, and we do not know how much they owe on it.
“They send their kids to private school.” The son is on at least partial scholarship, and the daughter receives state aid for her tuition because of her special needs.
“He owns his own business.” He’s a self-employed woodworker with a piece of commercial real estate valued at around $160,000. Again, we don’t know how much is still owed.
“They won’t turn over their tax returns.” They claim to gross between $45K and $55K a year, and they had to turn over their tax returns in order to qualify for SCHIP in the first place. If I were them, I’d be disinclined to release my tax returns for public consumption given the spin that’s been relentlessly put on every other factoid that has so far been made public.
First off, selling their story? I assume you’re not really trying to imply that they were compensated monetarily for this.
Second, I don’t have a problem with journalists who want to examine this family’s situation and report on what they find. I do have a problem with gross mischaracterizations and out-and-out dishonesty in such reporting.
And, like you, I have a BIG problem with people who harass, threaten, or ridicule this family.
Sadly, I draw a direct line of cause and effect from the dishonest reporting of certain bloggers and MSM to the harassment, threats and ridiculing. And that’s probably my biggest problem with the whole thing.
BTW, I’m not a big fan of the Democrat’s decision to use this 12-year-old for their mouthpiece. But just because they chose to do, and the family agreed to serve in that capacity, does not mean I think the family deserves what it is getting right now from rabid hate-mongers.
And prior to becoming Governor, Spitzer was the Attorney General of New York. You know - the guy who would presumably prosecute institutional corruption, which he did have somewhat of a reputation for.
So if Pataki was sitting on his hands on this (and he was) what was Spitzer doing?
New York has probably the most paralyzed and ineffective state government in the country - and both parties share blame for that mess.
If they had actually done that, instead of find out out where they lived, where they went to school, and what the family made and immediatly posting it online to shame and slime the Frosts, that would be fine. There was no simple checking of the facts, as soon as any information was available it was paraded all over Free Republic, Malkin’s site and scores of others. This was a systematic attack of a family that simply stood up and explained how the program helped them.
Again, an examination of the facts would have been appropriate and relevant. What actually happened was the worst kind of mob mentality.
S-CHIP is polling at 80%. The far right has no argument for curtailing spending now, after spending 500 billion on the war. When you have no argument, go after the other side. Whether the other side is a twelve year old child or not is irrellevent.
When these people have no argument for the actual debate, they attack the other side. No matter if the “other side” happens to be a twelve year old child or a decorated veteran, the right makes no distinction between the two.
How many times do I need to say that I deplore the harassment, death threats, and whatnot the family has received? I also condemn any intentional misrepresentation of facts.
However, once again, since this family was putting its personal story out there as justification for SCHIP expansion, they should not be too surprised when their personal story gets a thorough review. They deserve scrutiny; they do not deserve harassment.
Actually, it seems to be about the attempt by liberals to portray some vast right-wing harassment machine that seems to be eluding me. Yes, some anonymous idiots said these people deserved to die. That was horrible, but it’s relatively minor and, unfortunately, not uncommon language from either anonymous liberals or conservatives on message boards.
What other harassment happened? Michelle Malkin drove by their house? Rush Limbaugh and bloggers condemned them for using SCHIP? How is that harassment? Is there something I missed?
Finding out “where they lived, where they went to school, and what the family made” is perfectly legitimate since this family made their personal story the justification for expanding the program. Methinks liberals are crying “harassment” a little too soon. They are trying to wrap the family in the aura of victimhood in order to portray how evil conservatives are. I’m not buying it.
Please show me some harassment I missed then. Seriously. If you can convince me this family was truly harassed (other than by anonymous yahoos), then I’ll certainly condemn those who did it.
Boner, did you even read the article I linked to in the OP?
and I quote…
“It’s really frustrating,” said Bonnie Frost, 41, who stated she is upset by the angry Internet posts, e-mails and telephone calls targeting the family.
Thanks to the releasing of their personal information on the web, this family is being harrassed.
Do you think these people would be going through any of this if the Red State, Freepers and their ilk hadn’t egged them on?
Later, I linked to the fact that Sen McConnell’s office was responsible for spreading the rumours in an email. That is not some anonymous yahoo. That is a sitting Senator.
What else are you looking for? Or is this just obstinance for obstinace’s sake?
Frankly, anyone with an Internet connection could have put the family’s name in and found their phone number.
However, this family made their personal information a legitimate target of public interest. They were using their personal story to promote this program. Therefore, their personal story should be examined.
We’re not talking about anonymous Internet trolls here. We are talking about some vast GOP machinery that you and others claim personally demonizes and unfairly targets people who stand up against them. I’d like to see any evidence that anyone connected with the GOP “egged them on” in harassing this family. I’d even like to see evidence that Limbaugh or Malkin (neither of whom I respect, by the way) egged anyone on in harassing them.
It seems to me what we have here is a perfectly legitimate examination of this family’s personal story. Then some right-wing loonies get ahold of it and post a few threats against them. Maybe even call them. And then we have liberals say that some organized GOP hate machine is trying to smear this family and eggs on those who harass them.
No, it seems McConnell’s office merely pointed out to the media that there seems to be more to this family’s story than originally assumed.
I’m looking for the “swift-boating” that has been claimed. All I see is a legitimate (if, perhaps, a bit rude) examination of the family by the media and some deplorable anonymous threats by a few nutjobs.
Ah, I get it. The guy running the show, and the guy who’s supposed to investigate if he screws up, are equally responsible.
I don’t think so. The governor has the primary responsibility for ensuring that all is on the up-and-up in his government. He doesn’t need to wait around for an investigation; he doesn’t need to worry about innocent until proven guilty, preponderance of the evidence, or anything like that. If noticeable fuckups are happening in a department run by one of his political appointees, he can fire that person’s ass, and replace him/her with someone who won’t tolerate said fuckups.
“Personal story” is very different from “personal information”. And while some one with enough savvy, desire, time and money may have been able to find their address and phone (we don’t, I think, know if they were unlisted, for example), certainly you’d have to concede that posting said info made it quite a bit easier, more likely, etc that they’d be harassed. Unsolicited phone calls are harassing, ya know.
Additionally, where the kids go to school is not generally considered ‘public information’ , certainly not in my book, in my profession. and way beyond what would be appropriate. Wackos exist in the world, ya know.
and beyond all that, given the fucking outrage by the right when a web site made a pathetic pun of a general’s name after he testified in Congress (he, an adult, government employee who was asked to speak based on his position as a government employee), one would think there wouldn’t be this deafening defense of another web site’s posting personal information about a child and his parents so that other assorted wackos could easily locate them and harass them. One would think, at least, unless one was an absolutely soulless hypocrite, that is.
Renob, the claims made about this family basically all turned out to be half-truths and bullshit. They bought their house for $50K. Their kid goes to a private school on a scholarship. They aren’t rich. They aren’t scamming the system. They aren’t hiding any money. McConnel knew that. The screaming head, GOP media shills knew that. The family is what they said they were. Their villification has been intentionally deceptive and vindictive and is little more than an attempt to avoid the real issue. The house and the school are giant red herrings. They don’t deserve the harrassment and this is SOP for the Republican Party.
At any rate, I’m all for rooting out Medicaid and SCHIP fraud; who wouldn’t be? Just don’t expect me to feel outrage. Lots of stuff happens these days that, in a more normal time, I’d get outraged about, but these days it’s down in the white noise.
Funny how conservatives get all upset if they think some poor welfare mother is going to get away with an extra can of beans but they don’t bat an eye at the massive amount of waste being poured into Iraq. I think they have a very distorted mental picture of how much of their tax money really goes into social services.
No, the personal information was relevant here to a certain extent. The fact that the kids attend a private school at first glance seems to undercut the claim that the family couldn’t afford health insurance. The fact that similar homes in their neighborhood sold for $500,000 also seems to undercut their claims.
Of course, this information turned out to be inaccurate. But that doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant.
If a family is claiming poverty and then sending their kids to private school, that’s relevant.
Have I made any sort of defense of Petraeus?
Really? Let’s see a cite that these folks intentionally spread untruths. Or that once the true story came out, they continued to spread untruths.
Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare already consume 40% of the federal budget. And that isn’t even counting funding for SCHIP, TANF, and other social service spending. So I’d say that social service spending dwarfes the money going into Iraq (although I agree that we’d be better off spending no money in Iraq).
Exactly. How many of them would go batshit insane at the idea of a cargo plane full of pallets of cash being flown into Camden, NJ, and simply dispensed without record?