# Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson Documentary **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586 "2019-01-29T02:10:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/181 "2019-03-06T02:17:00Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Interesting that Corey Feldman who just recently has accused quite a few of molesting him and Corey Haim when they were young, and is not one to shy away from attention, has maintained that for all of Jackson’s odd behavior that he witnessed, he himself was never touched by Jackson. > He admits he speaks only for himself. Macauly Culkin is similar in his experiences. > Really weird guy, really inappropriate stuff with kids (sleepovers in beds), but never anything sexual. > You’d think one of these two would speak up if they knew something now that Jackson’s dead and they really have nothing to lose by doing so. Keisha Knight Pulliam has repeatedly asserted that Bill Cosby is a saint who never raped of anyone, since he never did anything around or to her. However, look at all the women who accused Cosby. They all fit a certain “type”. A type that Keisha doesn’t resemble at all. Tom Brokaw has been accused of sexual impropriety. Rachel Maddow immediately came out in his defense, which pissed me off. I suspect that Rachel Maddow is not Tom Brokaw’s type. I think she’s attractive and everything, but I’m not thinking she’d be in the best position to know whether Tom Brokaw is an undercover horndog. A coworker of mine was just fired for sexual harrassment. None of my close coworkers claim to have ever seen him harass anyone. He didn’t harass me. But he harassed someone. And that’s all that matters. Sex perverts are always selective with their perversions. If they weren’t selective, it wouldn’t take decades to root them out. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Barn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@More\_Barn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Barn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/182 "2019-03-06T02:17:49Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It appears to be four: the one in 1993 whose family accepted a cash settlement, the one in 2003 that went to trial, and then these two. > > … A well-thought out summation. The fact that there have only been four accusers to come forward is something I guess I knew, but it never really hit home how small that number is, given the massive amount of press this story has gotten over the years, and the accusations as detailed last night. It does seem that number would be so much higher if he had been molesting to the degree implied in episode 1 of the documentary. Given that MJ was acquitted twice, I believe, perhaps this gave victims pause before deciding to put themselves in the spotlight of a world-wide known trial. But still… As for financial gain, the two men from the documentary last night maintained MJ’s innocence for years, and of course only sued him after he died. This alone of course is no reason to discount what they said in the doc, but surely we must remember they were not under oath, had years to come up with believable, detail-filled stories, and of course that Jackson wouldn’t be around to defend himself. On the other hand their still exists the sad possibility that they were so affected by the alleged molestation that it took them this many years to come to terms with it. ---
**Author:** ![More\_Barn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@More\_Barn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Barn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/183 "2019-03-06T02:24:42Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I disagree. If you can hire expensive lawyers and investigators, you’re more powerful than most people facing such charges. It’s not that jurors were afraid of offending him, but the prosecution was outgunned. Remember OJ? I don’t disagree with the notion that the prosecution was outgunned. I’ll take your word for it as I don’t know those details. But just because he had skilled lawyers is no reason to think they necessarily got him off despite of his innocence. Maybe he was innocent. There is that _possibility_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/184 "2019-03-06T05:00:35Z")
I just watched the entire 4 hours. One of the most powerful documentaries I’ve ever seen. I never denied that MJ was a pedophile. I find the diehard fans to be repulsive people. If MJ weren’t rich and famous, they wouldn’t be defending him or automatically assuming he was innocent. Money and fame doesn’t make child abuse ok. But I guess before this, I always thought MJ was a pedophile because he was emotionally stunted and (for lack of a better word) naive. Like MJ didn’t have the emotional maturity to understand pedophilia was wrong. I looked at Michael Jackson like a mentally ill person or a 11 year old who commits a crime, someone who did wrong but wasn’t competent to understand what they did was wrong before seeing this. But watching this documentary, I had no idea how evil Michael Jackson was. [ul] [li]He’d listen in on phone conversations between the parents of children he was abusing, so he could use the conversations to manipulate the child into not trusting his parents. [/li][li]He’d cut kids off from their parents. [/li][li]He’d build little kids up and make them emotionally addicted to him, then just abandon them when he found new victims to molest. That part for me was hard to watch, to see these young grade school kids wonder what they did wrong that their abuser lost interest in them and to watch these young kids wonder what they could do to get back into Michael’s good graces. [/li][li]He told little kids that both he (MJ) and the kids would spend their lives in prison if they talked about the sexual abuse. [/li][li]MJ had all these tricks to determine if anyone was approaching a secluded area to catch him molesting kids. [/li][li]MJ threatened an ex-victim who refused to testify in his defense.[/li][/ul] etc. I’m really wondering if MJ has some serious antisocial disorder. Or was he just so entitled due to his fame and wealth that he felt he was above good and evil. I used to think MJ was an emotionally stunted pedophile who wasn’t emotionally mature enough to understand the consequences of his actions. But now I realize he was an evil pedophile, and an evil human being (assuming these accusations are true, and I don’t know why they’d make them up). I hope that scumbag burns in hell. Who knows how many victims he had. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/185 "2019-03-06T12:25:08Z")
> [@More\_Barn](#): > > I don’t disagree with the notion that the prosecution was outgunned. I’ll take your word for it as I don’t know those details. But just because he had skilled lawyers is no reason to think they necessarily got him off despite of his innocence. Maybe he was innocent. There is that _possibility_, right? There’s also a possibility that LBJ arranged the Kennedy assassination, but I really doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/186 "2019-03-06T15:42:15Z")
> [@](#): > > …and I don’t know why they’d make them up… If they did, I’d bet is was for possible monetary gain. Otherwise, yeah, it would make little sense. Will watch 2nd half tonight and see if this possibilty is addressed. I would hope so since I imagine it might be on people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/187 "2019-03-06T18:42:14Z")
**[Moderating]** **Fiddle Peghead** , was my previous post not clear? This is another Warning for failure to follow instructions. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/188 "2019-03-06T19:49:50Z")
Some people just can’t resist temptation–y’know, like MJ and a little boy’s bunghole. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/189 "2019-03-06T20:02:12Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Interesting that Corey Feldman who just recently has accused quite a few of molesting him and Corey Haim when they were young, and is not one to shy away from attention, has maintained that for all of Jackson’s odd behavior that he witnessed, he himself was never touched by Jackson. > He admits he speaks only for himself. Macauly Culkin is similar in his experiences. > Really weird guy, really inappropriate stuff with kids (sleepovers in beds), but never anything sexual. > You’d think one of these two would speak up if they knew something now that Jackson’s dead and they really have nothing to lose by doing so. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Michael Jackson did **NOT** molest any the famous child stars he befriended. And that their “public relationships” were all planned by Jackson in order to convince non-famous people his interest in their boys were entirely innocent and he just likes to "relive’ his childhood. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/190 "2019-03-06T20:52:51Z")
Okay. I just read another of the funniest things I hate to admit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/191 "2019-03-06T21:16:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I just watched the entire 4 hours. One of the most powerful documentaries I’ve ever seen. > > I never denied that MJ was a pedophile. I find the diehard fans to be repulsive people. If MJ weren’t rich and famous, they wouldn’t be defending him or automatically assuming he was innocent. Money and fame doesn’t make child abuse ok. > > But I guess before this, I always thought MJ was a pedophile because he was emotionally stunted and (for lack of a better word) naive. Like MJ didn’t have the emotional maturity to understand pedophilia was wrong. I looked at Michael Jackson like a mentally ill person or a 11 year old who commits a crime, someone who did wrong but wasn’t competent to understand what they did was wrong before seeing this. > > But watching this documentary, I had no idea how evil Michael Jackson was. > > [ul] > [li]He’d listen in on phone conversations between the parents of children he was abusing, so he could use the conversations to manipulate the child into not trusting his parents. [/li][li]He’d cut kids off from their parents. [/li][li]He’d build little kids up and make them emotionally addicted to him, then just abandon them when he found new victims to molest. That part for me was hard to watch, to see these young grade school kids wonder what they did wrong that their abuser lost interest in them and to watch these young kids wonder what they could do to get back into Michael’s good graces. [/li][li]He told little kids that both he (MJ) and the kids would spend their lives in prison if they talked about the sexual abuse. [/li][li]MJ had all these tricks to determine if anyone was approaching a secluded area to catch him molesting kids. [/li][li]MJ threatened an ex-victim who refused to testify in his defense.[/li][/ul] > etc. I’m really wondering if MJ has some serious antisocial disorder. Or was he just so entitled due to his fame and wealth that he felt he was above good and evil. > > I used to think MJ was an emotionally stunted pedophile who wasn’t emotionally mature enough to understand the consequences of his actions. But now I realize he was an evil pedophile, and an evil human being (assuming these accusations are true, and I don’t know why they’d make them up). I hope that scumbag burns in hell. Who knows how many victims he had. All of those are I believe common traits of pedophiles – manipulate your victims into think you’re the only one they can trust. Tell them you’ll both get in trouble if they tell. Alienate them from their families. And a lot of them do end up abandoning their victims once they get beyond the age they’re attracted to. They also tend towards troubled kids, who aren’t as close to their families, because they’re the ones who are least likely to blab. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/192 "2019-03-06T21:19:06Z")
Me, too, **Gato**. Now I’m curious about this documentary. HBO Now has a free seven-day trial, so when things settle down around here in about a week, I might watch _Neverland_. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/193 "2019-03-06T23:28:31Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > Me, too, **Gato**. Great, we can split the Hand-cart to Hell fare. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/194 "2019-03-07T06:17:22Z")
Satire from the **Onion** : [Michael Jackson Estate Questions Why Accusers Only Coming Forward Steadily Since Early 1990s](https://entertainment.theonion.com/michael-jackson-estate-questions-why-accusers-only-comi-1833105791) > [@](#): > > SANTA BARBARA, CA—Noting that the timing of the allegations appeared to be “a little too perfect,” a lawyer representing Michael Jackson’s estate questioned Wednesday why those accusing the late pop icon of child sexual abuse had only come forward steadily since the early 1990s. “It seems awfully convenient that all these people suddenly decided to come out of the woodwork on a regular basis over the course of a quarter century,” said Jonathan Steinsapir, explaining that he also found it quite suspicious that some had chosen to make their accusations as grown men instead of doing so back in the ’90s like so many other children did. “This all seems like quite the coincidence to me. Are we to believe that one man with access to a private Peter Pan–themed ranch, a multimillion-dollar legal team, and a rabid fanbase willing to ignore his considerable eccentricities could just molest a bunch of kids without us finding out about more than a handful of them per year since 1992? That’s a bit far-fetched.” Steinsapir added that suspecting a grown man of sexual misconduct simply because he made a habit of inviting underage fans to sleepovers in which they shared his bed was unfair and “frankly just cynical.” 🙂 On a more serious note, the Jackson estate and family are always claiming that accusers are motivated by financial interest. This is incredibly ironic, since they themselves have a _vast_ financial interest in denying the charges and smearing the accusers. Last year Sony paid $250 million for distribution rights to Jackson’s music. Sony may now lose money on the deal, and future deals are very much in question. There are a lot of people still feeding on Jackson’s corpse who are afraid that the streams of easy money are going to dry up. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/195 "2019-03-07T11:46:10Z")
If I recall correctly one of the two accusers was the choreographer for NSYNC, so I’d imagine that he’s already financially comfortable, or at least not so uncomfortable that he’d have to resort to a bunch of embarrassing (to himself and his family) lies. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to put such personally embarrasing stories out in public. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/196 "2019-03-07T12:11:51Z")
We live in the era of “the more obviously you the fit the profile of someone bad, the more likely a subset of the population will see that as evidence you are good”. Trump is another example of this at work. Golden toilets. Multiple divorces and infidelity. Bragging about his wealth. Draft dodger and attacker of war heroes like McCain. Surrounded by criminal and suspected criminals all of his life. “He’s a man of the people.” “He a good Christian man.” “He’s just the one to fight for the middle class.” “He’s going to drain the swamp”. I think at the heart of it, people have a heard time conceiving of someone who proudly waves their red flags; we assume that if someone is into wrongdoing, they have enough of a conscience to hide any sign of that. So when we see blatant signs, we register it as innocence. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/197 "2019-03-07T12:45:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We live in the era of “the more obviously you the fit the profile of someone bad, the more likely a subset of the population will see that as evidence you are good”. > > Trump is another example of this at work. Golden toilets. Multiple divorces and infidelity. Bragging about his wealth. Draft dodger and attacker of war heroes like McCain. Surrounded by criminal and suspected criminals all of his life. > > “He’s a man of the people.” “He a good Christian man" Do even .01% of the most fervent of Trump’s supporters really claim this? It seems to me that his base (who many admittedly might pay lip service to Christianity, but that’s where it typically ends for most of them) justify his vile personal life by saying, “I know he’s probably a deeply immoral man, but by gum, I didn’t vote for a mollyfocking Sunday School teacher, and he’s the only one who is willing to fight Political Correctness and take care of X,Y,Z that no one else has the guts to do, so what he does in the bedroom is between him, God and his hott little Eastern European whore of a wife.” Damn near no one actually thinks Donald Trump is a “Good Christian Man” particularly actual practicing, faithful Christian Men. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/198 "2019-03-07T13:03:26Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > If I recall correctly one of the two accusers was the choreographer for NSYNC, so I’d imagine that he’s already financially comfortable, or at least not so uncomfortable that he’d have to resort to a bunch of embarrassing (to himself and his family) lies. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to put such personally embarrasing stories out in public. He was also the choreographer for Britney Spears. He’s clearly very accomplished in his field and I would imagine that he has a lot to lose by accusing Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/199 "2019-03-07T13:50:53Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Do even .01% of the most fervent of Trump’s supporters really claim this? > Damn near no one actually thinks Donald Trump is a “Good Christian Man” particularly actual practicing, faithful Christian Men. There are many who claim Trump has been chosen by God to be president. There’s video footage of such. Methinks this is fodder for a different thread though. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/200 "2019-03-07T13:57:43Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Do even .01% of the most fervent of Trump’s supporters really claim this? [Christian leader Jerry Falwell urges Trump support: ‘He’s a moral person’](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/09/christian-leader-jerry-falwell-urges-trump-support-hes-a-moral-person) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=11)