# Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson Documentary **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586 "2019-01-29T02:10:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/21 "2019-02-06T02:07:36Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Fine. Don’t answer my question, then. I’m not sure which question you mean. How do I know Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because he fit all the ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/22 "2019-02-06T02:42:57Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I’m not sure which question you mean. How do I know Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because he fit all the Sorry, hit the send button too fast, and couldn’t edit in time. Anyway, Michael Jackson showed all the signs of being a pedophile. He admitted he slept with children, and now there are grown men saying he sexually abused them. If I believe Professor Ford, why shouldn’t I believe these two men? What did I mean by the phrase, “gets off on it”? I meant receives sexual pleasure fom it, the it being sleeping with children. Who is Melvin Morsemere? Many years ago, Mad Magazine used to use the name Melvin Morsemere in the same way Dave Berg would use Roger Kaputnik in his “The Lighter Side of…” comic strips. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/23 "2019-02-06T02:46:47Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I’m not sure which question you mean. How do I know Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because he fit all the My post #13. But you know, I dont really want to get into this. I’m just curious about the movie and what sort of proof, if any, it offers, so I will have to see it for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/24 "2019-02-06T04:27:47Z")
Usually a sex pervert like this with this much reach has dozens of victims. The fact that both the prior actual court cases were pretty open and shut cases of kids being coached by their parents to lie for big bucks, the fact so many other children famous or not have come out and defended him saying he never touched them, and the fact only now do we get the two people who said it happened, I really tend to side with MJ on this. When Louis CK and Bill Cosby were outed for being perverts/rapists they had dozens of people who were victimized themselves come out to confirm the story. If we start getting an avalanche after this I’ll believe them but right now we’re getting into that murky area where it could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/25 "2019-02-06T04:40:57Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Exactly my point. If a nobody like Melvin Morsemere was hanging out with and sleeping with children unrelated to him, you’d be willing to bet he was a pedophile. And if he offered you fifty bucks for your kid, how would you react? > > But Michael had gobs of cash to lure in greedy and starstruck people with yummy little boys to pimp out. And then he gave more money to make his victims and their vile families go away and shutup. > > And there are still those who want to believe in the harmless manchild myth and turn blind eyes to what’s painfully obvious. > > Why? Nobody’s THAT good a singer. Wasn’t there an episode of “Law & Order” or some comparable show where the parents, who were in very dire straits financially, did this to their son for the money? Even if he didn’t molest any children, he was definitely strange, and I’m going to leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/26 "2019-02-06T06:50:06Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Wasn’t there an episode of “Law & Order” or some comparable show where the parents, who were in very dire straits financially, did this to their son for the money? > > Even if he didn’t molest any children, he was definitely strange, and I’m going to leave it at that. Yep – the twist was that he paid them in advance. Their younger kid needed money for some kind of operation. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/27 "2019-02-06T17:39:30Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Wasn’t there an episode of “Law & Order” or some comparable show where the parents, who were in very dire straits financially, did this to their son for the money? > > Even if he didn’t molest any children, he was definitely strange, and I’m going to leave it at that. I remember an episode, with a guy who was very MJ-like. He had kids to his house and had a play room and everything. Sally Field brings her granddaughter there and then accuses him of molesting her. Turns out it didn’t happen, and Sally Field has Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and the granddaughter doesn’t ever have cancer. Two different episodes or two parts of the same? ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/28 "2019-02-06T18:05:10Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I remember an episode, with a guy who was very MJ-like. He had kids to his house and had a play room and everything. Sally Field brings her granddaughter there and then accuses him of molesting her. Turns out it didn’t happen, and Sally Field has Munchausen Syndrome by proxy, and the granddaughter doesn’t ever have cancer. > > Two different episodes or two parts of the same? The episode nearwildheaven is describing is from the original “Law & Order”; the one you are describing is an episode of “Law & Order: SVU”. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/29 "2019-02-06T23:31:04Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Usually a sex pervert like this with this much reach has dozens of victims. The fact that both the prior actual court cases were pretty open and shut cases of kids being coached by their parents to lie for big bucks, **the fact so many other children famous or not have come out and defended him saying he never touched them** , and the fact only now do we get the two people who said it happened, I really tend to side with MJ on this. When Louis CK and Bill Cosby were outed for being perverts/rapists they had dozens of people who were victimized themselves come out to confirm the story. If we start getting an avalanche after this I’ll believe them but right now we’re getting into that murky area where it could go either way. I don’t agree with your bolded reasoning, but I will say that until there is actual evidence presented, I will not believe that MJ molested anyone. And I don’t care how many people come out of the woodwork to tell me what a pathetic individual I am for not believing he was a pedophile, and for being such a sucker. I like to believe things based on fact, not sensationalized stories. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/30 "2019-02-06T23:41:23Z")
MJ had tea with the mayor of Osaka, _along with his pet monkey “Bubbles”_. Look how drastically he altered his appearance. We _know_ he was eccentric. That doesn’t make him a child molester… ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/31 "2019-02-06T23:56:59Z")
**Fiddle Peghead,** what kind of evidence are you asking for? If, as alleged, the parents accepted money for their children’s innocence, would you expect a rape exam afterward or the kid’s underwear forty years later? If they didn’t know or were in denial, how many kids in those days reported molestation by the neighbor, let along a rich celebrity? Before rape kits and ubiquitous surveillance cameras, accusations by adults were “he said-she said.” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/32 "2019-02-07T00:38:17Z")
Several years before my grandmother’s death in 1990 at the age of 91, she said, “I remember when Michael Jackson was this cute little boy, and now I can’t stand to look at him.” Why, yes, Grandma was cool, why do you ask? He totally mutilated himself. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/33 "2019-02-07T01:13:36Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > **Fiddle Peghead,** what kind of evidence are you asking for? If, as alleged, the parents accepted money for their children’s innocence, would you expect a rape exam afterward or the kid’s underwear forty years later? If they didn’t know or were in denial, how many kids in those days reported molestation by the neighbor, let along a rich celebrity? > > Before rape kits and ubiquitous surveillance cameras, accusations by adults were “he said-she said.” Quite frankly, I’m not asking for any, since this isn’t all that important to me. And I suspect none exists because if it did, it would surely have come to light by now. It’s just that I see people all the time saying, well _of course he’s guilty_, and I refuse to fall prey to unsubstantiated allegations. Now, I know upthread I may have suggested I am asking for something specific, but what I mean though is if something is offered then I will take a look. Otherwise, meh. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/34 "2019-02-07T01:14:16Z")
Michael Jackson touched a lot of people’s lives. He really started hitting it big when I was in my 20s and I never did like his music. I guess I was too old to be touched by Michael Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/35 "2019-02-07T01:20:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Michael Jackson touched a lot of people’s lives. He really started hitting it big when I was in my 20s and I never did like his music. I guess I was too old to be touched by Michael Jackson. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were engaging in some wordplay involving the word "touched."😀 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/36 "2019-02-07T04:34:08Z")
Like Michael Jackson, I also like to give millions of dollars to kids, whose parents are suing me after the child stayed over at my house and claiming I had sex with them, for no reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/37 "2019-02-07T07:10:12Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Like Michael Jackson, I also like to give millions of dollars to kids, whose parents are suing me after the child stayed over at my house and claiming I had sex with them, for no reason at all. At least according to the documentaries I’ve seen, the settlement over the first child was forced upon Michael by his insurance company who had total control over the finances of the trial because it was cheaper to settle than to have the trial despite the shakiness of the evidence against him. The accusations only started happening that lead to the first trial after the boys father (a dentist) decided to give him “truth serum” (amobarbital) for no real medical purpose except because he wanted to build a case against MJ. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/38 "2019-02-07T08:26:12Z")
Ok, Michael Jackson defender, this explains one case. Explain the others. I don’t know, if more than one child said I was a pedophile, and I wasn’t, I would fight that accusation that I was a pedophile, with my millions. Instead of giving those milions to the childs family. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/39 "2019-02-07T14:11:04Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Ok, Michael Jackson defender, this explains one case. Explain the others. > > I don’t know, if more than one child said I was a pedophile, and I wasn’t, I would fight that accusation that I was a pedophile, with my millions. Instead of giving those milions to the childs family. Money gives you advantages. If MJ felt it was worth his while overall to pay the settlement, so be it. It’s not proof of anything. I’d think that Jackson was well aware at the time, that no matter what you say to convince people otherwise, there are some things they are going to believe, and you can’t do anything about it. Better to pay the settlement and be done with the whole issue, at least as much as possible. Even today, there are people that are convinced that Jackson was a pedophile, again, in the face of _no concrete_ evidence. As for explaining the others, to use the old saying, you can’t prove a negative. This is not how it works. You explain the evidence about the “others”, and I’ll be glad to listen. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/40 "2019-02-07T16:48:59Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Ok, Michael Jackson defender, this explains one case. Explain the others. > > I don’t know, if more than one child said I was a pedophile, and I wasn’t, I would fight that accusation that I was a pedophile, with my millions. Instead of giving those milions to the childs family. Let me say up front that I’m not a Michael Jackson fan. And I’m 80% of the way to believing that he’s a kid toucher, and I’ve felt that way for a long time. I’m a middle age guy now, and I can’t imagine the need or desire to have little boys in my bed. But I’ll say this . . . These men had more than enough chance to bring these accusations against Jackson while he was alive, when he had an opportunity to defend himself. It does seem a bit self-serving and opportunistic to trot these accusations out now. They are not honest brokers in this situation, so I really don’t know what to make of their stance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=3)