# Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson Documentary **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586 "2019-01-29T02:10:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/41 "2019-02-07T17:29:49Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > These men had more than enough chance to bring these accusations against Jackson while he was alive, when he had an opportunity to defend himself. It does seem a bit self-serving and opportunistic to trot these accusations out now. They are not honest brokers in this situation, so I really don’t know what to make of their stance. Did you not just answer your question about their “stance”? “Self-serving and opportunistic”? Now again, I don’t know the truth and certainly can’t know their actual motivations, but I can take a decent stab at guessing them. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/42 "2019-02-07T17:47:24Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > These men had more than enough chance to bring these accusations against Jackson while he was alive, when he had an opportunity to defend himself. It does seem a bit self-serving and opportunistic to trot these accusations out now. They are not honest brokers in this situation, so I really don’t know what to make of their stance. Is this what you think about all of those grown people who are accusing priests of sexually abusing them when they were children? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/43 "2019-02-07T17:50:31Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Even today, there are people that are convinced that Jackson was a pedophile, again, in the face of _no concrete_ evidence. What would you call “concrete evidence”? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/44 "2019-02-07T18:05:42Z")
If they were women and it was some other dead pop star, would you dismiss them so easily? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/45 "2019-02-07T18:42:03Z")
For God’s sake, I once had a crush on Bob Crane. But I don’t doggedly insist that he was never involved with sleazy homemade porn. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/46 "2019-02-07T19:06:19Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Let me say up front that I’m not a Michael Jackson fan. And I’m 80% of the way to believing that he’s a kid toucher, and I’ve felt that way for a long time. I’m a middle age guy now, and I can’t imagine the need or desire to have little boys in my bed. But I’ll say this . . . > > These men had more than enough chance to bring these accusations against Jackson while he was alive, when he had an opportunity to defend himself. It does seem a bit self-serving and opportunistic to trot these accusations out now. They are not honest brokers in this situation, so I really don’t know what to make of their stance. You can’t imagine that they were scared kids? Who couldn’t even trust their parents because they enabled their molester? It would take a very long time and a lot of therapy to come to terms with all that had happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/47 "2019-02-07T19:11:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What would you call “concrete evidence”? Withdrawn. Rephrase: in the face of little to no evidence of molestation. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/48 "2019-02-07T19:17:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > If they were women and it was some other dead pop star, would you dismiss them so easily? I would like to think I bring my same powers of reasoning to an issue no matter the gender of the accusers. And just for the record, I want to make it clear that I am not dismissing them, as I have not seen the movie. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/49 "2019-02-07T20:03:57Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > You can’t imagine that they were scared kids? Who couldn’t even trust their parents because they enabled their molester? It would take a very long time and a lot of therapy to come to terms with all that had happened to them. As I stated, I’m pretty convinced that Jackson is guilty, so I’m not going to start trying to defend him. One of the men is now 19 years old, so I’ll conceed that he may not have had a lot of time to process what had/might have happened to him. The other guy is 38. He’s had time. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/50 "2019-02-07T23:48:20Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > As I stated, I’m pretty convinced that Jackson is guilty, so I’m not going to start trying to defend him. > > One of the men is now 19 years old, so I’ll conceed that he may not have had a lot of time to process what had/might have happened to him. The other guy is 38. He’s had time. What are the reason(s) you believe he is guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/51 "2019-02-08T01:20:30Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > As I stated, I’m pretty convinced that Jackson is guilty, so I’m not going to start trying to defend him. > > One of the men is now 19 years old, so I’ll conceed that he may not have had a lot of time to process what had/might have happened to him. The other guy is 38. He’s had time. It’s certainly plausible that a 38-year-old still has issues. There are plenty of people who have trouble dealing with sexual molestation their entire lives. It’s not just a matter of getting some therapy to get over it. That kind of abuse and betrayal scars a kid and they have to learn to live with it. It’s always there. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/52 "2019-02-08T02:51:14Z")
Look, the only thing we can be certain of that he molested was his nose. One plastic surgery? GTFOH!! If he lies about his nose, then he would have lied about, ahem, “bigger” things. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/53 "2019-02-08T13:53:02Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Look, the only thing we can be certain of that he molested was his nose. One plastic surgery? GTFOH!! > > If he lies about his nose, then he would have lied about, ahem, “bigger” things. Please text me a picture of yourself so I can be sure to tell my lawyer to reject you for my jury, should I ever have to sit before one. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/54 "2019-02-20T06:41:36Z")
The [official trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Ze8LjzV7Q) of Leaving Neverland was released yesterday, and it will be aired on HBO in March. ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see.’ ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/55 "2019-02-20T09:08:43Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Please text me a picture of yourself so I can be sure to tell my lawyer to reject you for my jury, should I ever have to sit before one. You are invested in defending Jackson, aren’t you? The years of therapy these young men have gone through. The intimidation by MJs legal team and PIs. The evidence given by the staff at the time. If you can’t find any evidence its because you don’t want to find any evidence. > **[Anthony Pellicano Slams Michael Jackson In Shocking Prison Interview Ahead Of...](https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/02/anthony-pellicano-michael-jackson-prison-interview/)** > > ‘I was offered $500,000 to tell the whole story... and I declined,’ said jailed private investigator Anthony Pellicano of his time working with Michael Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/56 "2019-02-21T13:59:58Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You are invested in defending Jackson, aren’t you? The years of therapy these young men have gone through. The intimidation by MJs legal team and PIs. The evidence given by the staff at the time. If you can’t find any evidence its because you don’t want to find any evidence. > [Anthony Pellicano Slams Michael Jackson In New Prison Interview](https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/02/anthony-pellicano-michael-jackson-prison-interview/) I’m not “invested” in anything and don’t care if he is innocent or guilty. I just refuse to believe he is guilty without proof. You, nor anyone else, has offered it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/57 "2019-02-21T15:00:43Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The [official trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Ze8LjzV7Q) of Leaving Neverland was released yesterday, and it will be aired on HBO in March. > > ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see.’ There are also none so gullible as those who will believe something without proof. Thus, I will watch it and see if it offers any. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/58 "2019-02-21T21:17:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Michael Jackson’s estate is suing HBO over the network’s plans to air a documentary alleging the singer sexually abused two young boys. > > The estate is claiming that by showing Leaving Neverland, HBO is violating a non-disparagement clause from a 1992 contract. According to the suit, when HBO aired Michael Jackson in Concert in Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour, the clause precluded them from disparaging the singer in future works. > > In a 53-page complaint, the four-hour, two-part documentary is referred to as “a one-sided marathon of unvetted propaganda to shamelessly exploit an innocent man no longer here to defend himself”… > > The suit urges HBO to take part in a public arbitration process and claims that it could cost the company up to $100m in damages. > **[Michael Jackson estate suing HBO for $100m over tell-all documentary](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/21/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-documentary-lawsuit-hbo)** > > The singer’s estate is claiming the network is breaching a 1992 non-disparagement contract by airing a two-part documentary alleging sexual abuse against children ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/59 "2019-02-21T21:31:31Z")
It still bothers me that Jackson’s trial resulted in Not Guilty. So many victims and Jackson only got charged for Gavin Arvizo. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586/60 "2019-02-22T02:27:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It still bothers me that Jackson’s trial resulted in Not Guilty. > > So many victims and Jackson only got charged for Gavin Arvizo. So I guess you are finally the one who has evidence of MJ’s crimes, you know, for all those other victims. Please post whatever you think is the most damning if you wish. I’d love to see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-documentary/828586.md?page=4)