# Leaving the seat up **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593 "2000-02-25T21:53:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/1 "2000-02-25T21:53:00Z")
And now for an issue almost but not quite as momentious as the the TP over/under debate. To wit: Why do women make such a big stink when men leave the toilet seat in the up position after urinating? It’s just as inconvenient for men to adjust the seat each time we go as it is for the women. Why should we have to adjust it twice and women not at all? (We’re not talking about leaving the decorative lid cover in view. The lid can stay up indefinitely, it’s the seat they’re bitchin about). I have a mother and a sister but this never became an issue at our house. Only later did I learn that some women have Big Problem with it. Later still I did get one explanation: Sometimes when women go to the bathroom late at night, they’ll sit down directly onto the bowl with hilar-, I mean very upsetting results. My response to that is this: Listen ladies, if your guy was in the habit of going to the bathroom in the middle of the night without turning on the light or checking to see if the seat was up, you would’t like it one bit. ---
**Author:** ![StrTrkr777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@StrTrkr777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StrTrkr777)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/2 "2000-02-25T22:00:00Z")
Actually I get in trouble on the other side. I feel that having the lid up is unsightly and so not only do I put the seat down, but the lid as well. Then when my wife sits down in the dark, she lands on a cold lid and if she has not waited to start a big mess. Jeffery ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/3 "2000-02-25T22:39:00Z")
It was once explained to me like this (assuming one man and one woman share a toilet): Women sit down 100% of the time. Men sit down 14% (assuming you urinate six times and um…pass bowels…once a day) of the time. Overall use of the toilet: 14 times per day. The number of “seated uses” of the toilet: 8 So, on any given visit to the toilet, there’s a 57% chance that the person will be sitting. Leave the seat down. (Yes, I realize this is overly analytical and a very geeky approach. But it convinced me, a former “why should I have to put the seat down?” guy. ) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/4 "2000-02-25T23:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by mouthbreather: > **So, on any given visit to the toilet, there’s a 57% chance that the person will be sitting.** Yes, but using your numbers, and assuming random distribution of each typo of use, the average number of adjustments needed for “keep the seat down” is 6/14 times two (put the seat up, then put it down 6 out of the fourteen times)=12/14=168/196. Under the “leave it how you used it” rule, there would be (8/14)^2+(6/14)^2=100/196 times that the seat could be left alone, and (8/14)(6/14)+(6/14)(8/14)=96/196 times that it would have to be changed. This is slightly more than half the number for the “always put it up” strategy. So hah! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/5 "2000-02-25T23:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by The Ryan: > \*\* Yes, but using your numbers, and assuming random distribution of each typo of use,\*\* Dang typos! That should be “type”. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/6 "2000-02-25T23:31:00Z")
I vote for strtrkr’s solution: It looks better, it’s more sanitary, and everyone has an equitable amount of work to do. If that’s not acceptable, I vote for leaving the seat down. It’s only fair: We can’t pee over the side of the boat, we should at least get to pee in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/7 "2000-02-25T23:48:00Z")
Looking at The Ryan’s post, I retract my statement (referring to myself): > [@](#): > > Yes, I realize this is overly analytical and a very geeky approach The Ryan gets it instead. ---
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/8 "2000-02-26T00:38:00Z")
Folks, it’s just common courtesy. Also (and I hate to admit this) our aim isn’t always that great, and those ocasional little yellow mounds of dried pee on the rim look disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/9 "2000-02-26T01:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by WillGolfForFood: > **Also (and I hate to admit this) our aim isn’t always that great, and those ocasional little yellow mounds of dried pee on the rim look disgusting.** Now \that’s\ something women have often wondered about. With all the practice ya’ll have, just what is the problem? * * * You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. -Harriet Woods- ---
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/10 "2000-02-26T02:09:00Z")
Hey, _you_ try to aim one of those things. It’s not like they come with gunsights or anything… ---
**Author:** ![inertia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@inertia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inertia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/11 "2000-02-26T02:56:00Z")
First of all, it’s not built for precision but brute force (pun intended). Secondly, if Pavlov has taught us anything at all, it should be much easier for women to learn to ascertain the disposition of the seat before engagement what with all the immediate negative reinforcement. Men on the other hand only get nagged at several hours later and often are positively reinforced to leave it up if they use it twice in a row for number 1. I propose that the only fair thing to do is for everyone to put the seat and lid down. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/12 "2000-02-26T03:36:00Z")
Actually, my aim is quite good. What pissed me off (heh) was when the ex-roomie would use it. I’d go in barefoot and step in a wet spot. Always had to remind him _NO FLOOR PISSING!_ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/13 "2000-02-26T03:38:00Z")
Uh… when I said “use it” I meant “use the toilet”. Not my unit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/14 "2000-02-26T03:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by mouthbreather: > **Looking at The Ryan’s post, I retract my statement (referring to myself): > The Ryan gets it instead.** Thank you, thank you ::bows:: 🙂 As for aiming: keep in mind that distance depends on velocity, velocity depends on pressure, and pressure is highly variable. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/15 "2000-02-26T08:17:00Z")
The ‘fair’ thing to do is NOT TO WORRY ABOUT IT. Life is too short for these stupid little power struggles. I put the seat down when I remember, and my wife looks before she sits down like any sane human should. In ten years of marriage, the issue has never come up once. Lifting the lid or putting it down is such a trivial task that it’s just not worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![sorrel554](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@sorrel554](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sorrel554)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2000, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/16 "2000-02-26T20:03:00Z")
I’m in agreement with those who do not see this as an issue. What’s so hard about looking to see whether the seat or the lid is up or down? When I lived with five housemates, I shared a bathroom with two guys while the other three, girls, shared a bathroom. The guys kept our bathroom much cleaner and neater than the other one, where there was a constant myriad of hair products, makeup, curling irons, drip-drying pantyhose, etc. Nonetheless, the other three girls rarely missed an opportunity to say they felt sorry for me, sharing with the guys, because of the seat-lowering issue. Who cares? Yet I notice many women talk about this as a form of shorthand, making this represent all the things men may do that they perceive as annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/17 "2000-02-27T16:11:00Z")
The solution is obvious. Men should leave the lid down, and women should leave the lid up. That way, the responsibility is equally divided, and the chance of finding the lid in the position favored by either is equal. Of course, such an arrangement is based on a relationship between rational adults that care about each other, not a power struggle between selfish egos. * * * TT “It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers.” –James Thurber ---
**Author:** ![Prairie\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Prairie\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prairie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/18 "2000-02-27T17:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by cher3: > **It’s only fair: We can’t pee over the side of the boat, we should at least get to pee in the dark.** Amen to that, sister! I don’t care if the seat is up or down during the day, but after hubby gets ready for bed, the seat had better be down. He doesn’t pee during the night, but I do. It’s bad enough that I have to wake up to do this and to feed my son (who still isn’t sleeping through the night, dammit!) without the added indignity of falling in the bowl. Prairie Rose * * * If you’re not part of the solution you’re just scumming up the bottom of the beaker. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/19 "2000-02-27T20:51:00Z")
So… You’re fighting for your right to not have to look where you’re going? You know, men sit down too for some things. I have never, ever come close to ‘falling in’, and I don’t know anyone who has. Are you sure this argument isn’t just a wee bit overblown? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593/20 "2000-02-27T22:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by dhanson: > **You know, men sit down too for some things. I have never, ever come close to ‘falling in’, and I don’t know anyone who has. Are you sure this argument isn’t just a wee bit overblown?** See WillGolf’s comment about yellow piss-stained rims, above. Try falling back asleep at three AM after you have to wash the backs of your legs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-the-seat-up/17593.md?page=2)