# Leaving USA for someplace saner- easier said than done? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810 "2024-11-06T20:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/181 "2025-12-15T19:03:23Z")
The warmest bits of Canada are coastal BC and southern Ontario. Coastal BC is much like the rest of the Pacific NW. Moderate temperatures, lots of rain, rarely to have significantly below freezing temperatures. Southern Ontario has about the same weather as southern Michigan/northern Ohio. The Great Lakes moderate the temperatures, but you do get heavy lake effect snow. Very mild winters by Canadian Prairie standards, but still actually winter. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/182 "2025-12-15T19:23:39Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > There have been talks of annexing the Turks and Caicos: Fascinating. I had no idea. Now I have images of the Turks & Caicos islands in January covered entirely in swimsuit-clad Canadians standing shoulder to shoulder, looking like a human version of those miles-large flocks of penguins standing at the water’s edge in Antarctica. Some rough math suggests that if the entire population of Canada decamped to T&C for the winter, each Canadian would get 10 square meters to stand / sleep / live on. And they’d outnumber the T&C native population about 1,000 to 1. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/183 "2025-12-15T19:45:48Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > The warmest bits of Canada are coastal BC and southern Ontario. Yes, and possibly also some parts of the Maritime provinces. I can’t say we don’t get much snow in southern Ontario since I’ve been whining about it elsewhere, but this season it’s mainly because of the La Nina cycle. Many winters we typically don’t get much at all, and global warming has been raising average temperatures faster than the global average. Later this week, while La Nina continues to wreak havoc with the precipitation pattern, temperatures will rise to about 41°F and the snow will turn to rain. > [@orcenio](#): > > You will **definitely** not enjoy our country for ~4-5 months of the year. Depends on location. Where I live in southern Ontario it’s always a toss-up whether we’ll have a “white Christmas” as significant snowfalls, if any, tend not to come until January, and by March it starts warming again. > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > However, no matter how hard I’ve tried I haven’t been able to come up with her birth certificate; just a baptismal record, which I doubt would be sufficient. That might not be enough, but see below. If you have your grandmother’s full name, date of birth, father’s name and mother’s maiden name, you could probably get an actual birth certificate from the Quebec government. > [@Spoons](#): > > Plus, as I recall from the experience of a friend of mine, Quebec only issued baptismal certificates (i.e. not birth certificates) until sometime in the 1960s or 1970s. The same happened to him: born in Quebec with only a baptismal certificate. But using that certificate, he was, according to the Canadian government, a Canadian citizen, and had no problem getting a Canadian passport. The trouble is that the laws keep changing. I think you might be wrong about the “only baptismal certificates” – what about children who were never baptized? I think the issue was that until a certain year the Quebec government issued some birth certificates solely based on baptismal records. What I know for sure is that at some point in the early 2000s, all Quebec birth certificates issued before a certain date were deemed invalid for official purposes, and you had to apply for a new one. I’m just looking at mine now, issued in 2006 when I had to get a new passport. The old one was not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/184 "2025-12-15T19:56:30Z")
For what it’s worth, we (central-ish Vancouver) haven’t even had a frost yet. Higher elevations have. After a few winters of nothing but cold rain, though, you might learn to welcome snow. (And we do usually get a _little_ snow, somewhere between a few days and a few weeks of white stuff on the ground.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/185 "2025-12-15T20:40:58Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The Canadian government, as is their right, places lots of limits on ordinary Americans with no prior connection to Canada just moving there to live and work. As such, very few of us 300 million potential refugees will be let in. Only a (very) limited number will succeed." Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/186 "2025-12-15T21:49:59Z")
Well, i grew up spending a lot of my winters in New Hampshire. And i liked it. Most of the populated parts of Canada have a lovely climate by my standards. If i could get legal permanent residency, I’d be happy to move to Toronto or nearby. (And i was barely willing to visit the Southern US in the summer even before i had political reasons to stay away. I’ve decided against attending events because the weather was likely to be too hot.) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/187 "2025-12-15T21:53:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > If you have your grandmother’s full name, date of birth, father’s name and mother’s maiden name, you could probably get an actual birth certificate from the Quebec government. Thank you for that suggestion. As it happens, I do have what you listed; now I need to brush up on my French and hunt down the requisite form(s). Or if you still have that information, sharing it would be appreciated. (One potential hiccup is that she had three given names, and I’ve seen them in several combinations. But one speed bump at a time.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/188 "2025-12-15T22:05:15Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Thank you for that suggestion. As it happens, I do have what you listed; now I need to brush up on my French and hunt down the requisite form(s). Or if you still have that information, sharing it would be appreciated. Despite the sociopolitical aspect of the Quebec government pushing the French language, there’s no problem at all dealing with them in English. **[Here’s a useful site](https://www.etatcivil.gouv.qc.ca/en/certificate-copy/certificate-copy.html).** ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/189 "2025-12-15T22:26:37Z")
Again, thanks (and I was being a tad facetious about the French\*). On the surface, it would appear that I don’t have the right to apply for a certificate since I’m neither a legal representative (documentation required) nor a child of a deceased person. More research required. \* At one time I was responsible for the payroll system for a company which had facilities in BC and NS, so once a year I’d receive a bulky document from Revenue Canada listing the changes required for the coming year. Written, of course, in the finest bureaucratese. I used to say that I found the Fench easier to understand than the English. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/190 "2025-12-15T22:31:06Z")
Usually, that is the requirement for an original, meant to go only to the person represented. A certified copy, to be used for purposes such as you intend, is less limited, and as a descendant you should be able to get one. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/191 "2025-12-30T05:56:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I grew up in northern Idaho Do you mind my asking where? Just idle curiosity. I’ve lived here in Moscow (Idaho) for 20 years after 55 years in San Diego. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/192 "2025-12-30T06:04:10Z")
Spirit Lake. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2025, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/193 "2025-12-30T06:19:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > there’s no problem at all dealing with them in English. > If they choose to … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/194 "2025-12-31T07:26:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Spoons](#): > > > > It is extremely hard to lose Canadian citizenship if you were born in Canada > > That’s the case now, but rules were different back when Canadian citizenship was introduced. I think that a Canadian woman who married a citizen from à foreign country might have lost Canadian citizenship. But then there have been lawsuits and retroactive changes to the law on this point. > > But I agree - a baptismal certificate from Quebec will likely be accepted as proof of birth in Canada. What I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around is the recent change to citizenship by descent in Canada as a result of Bill C-3, which went into effect just a couple weeks ago. For people born after December 15, 2025, it’s clear enough: there is a new 3-year presence rule for before a Canadian citizen can pass citizenship on to a child by descent to a child born abroad. Not unlike US law (although we require more than 3 years). It’s the implication for pre-December 15, 2025 that has me furrowing my brows. AIUI, it implements the holding of _Bjorkquist et al. v. Attorney General of Canada_, 2023 by recognizing that it was unjustifiably discriminatory to require Canadian citizens born abroad to meet a physical presence requirement (in Canada) before they could pass citizenship on to a child also born abroad. That said, most of the discussion I see talks about how this impacts second-generation born abroad Canadians (that is, their grandparent was born in Canada, but their parent was not, making the parent the first generation born abroad a Canadian citizen under the old scheme, and now essentially declaring the second generation born abroad is also a citizen if they were born prior to December 15, 2025). But what about the third generation born abroad, if born prior to December 15, 2025? If the second generation born abroad has now been declared, retroactively, a citizen by descent all along, then would that carry forward to the third generation? I feel like I’d need to talk to a Canadian immigration attorney to be sure. I tried reading the law itself, as amended, but it is, like US immigration law, a lot of gibberish with so many ifs/thens/buts/excepts/etcs, and as a layperson with respect to Canadian law, I am not equipped to analyze it. Anyway, for those who want to get a aense of what I am talking about, see this summary: > **[Canada’s New Citizenship Rules Explained: What Bill C-3 Means for Canadians...](https://devrylaw.ca/canadas-new-citizenship-rules-explained-what-bill-c-3-means-for-canadians-born-abroad/)** > > Bill C-3 is now in force, changing Canadian citizenship by descent rules and restoring citizenship for families affected by the first-generation limit. And this is a government summary: > **[If you were born outside Canada - Check if you may be a citizen - Canada.ca](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/already-citizen.html#s2)** > > Depending on your situation, you might already be a Canadian citizen based on the citizenship rules. This page can help you learn more about this possibility, including how to find out for sure. | “Am I Canadian?” See if you are already a citizen …with the confusing/intriguing part being: > If you were born outside of Canada **before December 15, 2025** , you’re likely a Canadian citizen if your parent was also a Canadian citizen when you were born. I mean, okay, so suppose great-grandma was born in Canada and lived there for many years prior to 1947 (thus a Canadian citizen by the act of 1946), grandma was born in the US (first generation born abroad and thus a Canadian citizen by descent), mother was also born in the US prior to 2025 (so, by this new rule, also a citizen by descent?)… but what about daughter, also born in the US prior to 2025? Since dad is now considered a Canadian citizen by descent (right?) doesn’t that mean _daughter_ was born to a Canadian citizen? And this a citizen herself since she was born prior to December 15, 2025??? There is also this, but it seems to ignore the distinction between births prior to December 15, 2025 and births on or after that date if there is in fact such a distinction and I am not just grossly misinterpreting the secondary sources): > **[Bill C-3: A New Canadian Citizenship Rule | TDS Law](https://www.tdslaw.com/resource/canadian-citizenship-bill-c-3/)** > > On December 15, 2025, Bill C-3 came into effect, updating the first-generation limit on citizenship by descent. Under this new law, a Canadian parent born or adopted outside Canada can pass on citizenship to their children born or adopted abroad,... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/195 "2025-12-31T07:34:06Z")
There’s a thread on Bjorkquist and the amendments over here: > [@Canada legal geeks: impact of Bjorkquist decision on citizenship by descent for the second generation born outside Canada?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canada-legal-geeks-impact-of-bjorkquist-decision-on-citizenship-by-descent-for-the-second-generation-born-outside-canada/996610): > > To make a VERY long story short, my grandmother was born in Canada and immigrated to the U.S. as a teenager, and for a long series of reasons, I didn’t manage to file an application for a Certificate of Canadian Citizenship until right after the 2020 election. (I had major issues lining up documentation showing that the person on her birth certificate was the same person who gave birth to my father; my father was largely uncooperative the many, many times I asked him about it, largely because he… ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/196 "2025-12-31T07:37:05Z")
Oh, thanks. I’m curious because great-grandma ASL was born in Canada. Although, as I’ve noted in this thread, I don’t see myself leaving the US. ---
**Author:** ![Sooner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sooner/32/7875_2.png) [@Sooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sooner)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/197 "2025-12-31T08:21:15Z")
A decade younger - but otherwise similar. My wife and I both have decent pensions and a bit of wealth. Top on my head, Portugal, Mexico, Malta, Philippines, Thailand … seemly would love to have us. Admittedly that is easier said than done - we spend a couple months overseas this year. Mostly as a test run, wasn’t as peasant as I hoped. But still seems a rational option. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/198 "2025-12-31T13:02:52Z")
That sounds very similar to the law change in the UK that lets people like me who have a maternal grandmother born in the UK (but not mother) to gain UK citizenship due to past gender discrimination. I’m nearing the end of my application preparation and thus far seems straightforward (but I’m using a solicitor who is doing the heavy lifting). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/199 "2025-12-31T13:36:02Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I’ve lived here in Moscow (Idaho) for 20 years after 55 years in San Diego. Off topic: I lived in Moscow, ID for a few years in the 70s. Two of my children were born there. We lived in a farm house south of town while I attended the university. ---
**Author:** ![LouMa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/louma/32/19472_2.png) [@LouMa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouMa)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/200 "2025-12-31T14:10:52Z")
> [@Sooner](#): > > Top on my head, Portugal, Mexico, Malta, Philippines, Thailand … seemly would love to have us. As far as I know Americans are not well liked in Portugal at all. They buy apartments or houses and so contribute to rising house prices which makes real estate inaccessible to natives. And they come expecting that everybody has to address them in English. Without a very solid command of the native language you will never feel welcome in your host country. Bureaucracy is a nightmare, you need to know the Portuguese laws, regulations, by-laws etc. US citizens are not accepted as clients by European banks and so on and so forth. Emigrating is very different from knowing a country as a tourist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810.md?page=11)