# Leaving USA for someplace saner- easier said than done? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810 "2024-11-06T20:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/81 "2024-11-23T22:09:37Z")
I believe an important reason people think they suck at learning languages is that our culture completely misrepresents how hard it is to acquire a new language, and perpetuates a myth of people who can acquire languages easily. There is no shortage of people trying to sell you language learning methods and systems that will supposedly make the task quick and effortless. There are many “fake polyglots” on YouTube who use various tricks to make it appear that they have acquired near-native fluency with minimal effort. In film and television, characters pick up foreign languages with great ease. There are very few people telling you the reality - that acquiring a language requires thousands of hours of consistent, dedicated effort and exposure, including long periods where progress feels slow or non-existent. So when language learners don’t reach their language goals as quickly as they have been led to expect, they understandably conclude that they are just not good at learning languages and give up. Just as if someone takes up the piano in the expectation of becoming a concert pianist in 6 weeks, they will think they are no good at music. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/82 "2024-11-23T22:24:09Z")
Before I read the article, I assumed that the couple had been bullied or ostracised by the locals, which is something that certainly can happen and has happened to new arrivals. Their actual complaints seemed not to add up to much. The local people were friendly but they had not yet made friends despite their efforts - this is a very common experience for new arrivals in any community. The thing about the celery is just odd and I have been thinking about it a lot! I spend about 3 weeks in France every year. We mainly eat at home, buying food locally and preparing our own meals. I’ve never had a complaint about the range and quality of fresh food in the supermarkets, not to mention every town and village has a weekly market where you can buy fresh vegetables. I wonder if it was an issue of buying food out of season? Or that there was a different cultural expectation of what fresh celery looks like (neatly trimmed and misted with water)? Or that the particular local store they were buying from just isn’t a good place to get fresh celery? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/83 "2024-11-23T23:29:50Z")
I honestly think their local store sold blanched celery, which looks pale and a little limp, but some people actively prefer because it’s also less bitter. And they wanted green crunchy celery. That being said, I’ve gone grocery shopping in several parts of France, and the produce was generally very good. > [@hibernicus](#): > > I believe an important reason people think they suck at learning languages is that our culture completely misrepresents how hard it is to acquire a new language, and perpetuates a myth of people who can acquire languages easily. I dunno, my mom tried to teach me French as an infant and gave up because i had delayed language acquisition. I’ve since taken formal classes in French, Hebrew, Latin, and ancient Greek. I underperformed my classmates in all of those. And adults tend to be poor at picking up new languages. And I’m gregarious, and would want to chat with people at the supermarket. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/84 "2024-11-23T23:43:11Z")
Any time I’ve been in France, finding good produce has not been on my list of things to worry about, Paris or smaller centres. Seems odd. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/85 "2024-11-23T23:48:03Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Real example: I see some “intensive” courses in German advertised as 75 lessons, 45 minutes each, 5 lessons per day Monday through Friday. I don’t have a cite, but a long time ago I worked for an association of national association of senior citizens (not AARP; a different one that I think is defunct now) and one of the things I learned about was how people learn differently at different ages. Older people tend to do better with shorter lessons and more recovery time in between. They have some advantages over younger people (better at building recognizing frameworks and intuiting relationships) but also perform less well on some tasks, including memory. Obviously there is a ton of individual variation in learning styles, regardless of age. But intensive language studies are probably on the whole less suitable for older learners. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/86 "2024-11-23T23:59:41Z")
Even if you make it to Canada, you may have trouble opening a bank account, being Murican and all. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/87 "2024-11-24T02:01:52Z")
When I moved to the UK for work, in a small university town, I was lonely and miserable because I didn’t know how to talk to strangers in that specific cultural context. Strangers did not repond to me the way they had in California, and people I sort of knew kept making inane remarks at me for no real reason. Some years of experience with British people, and I learned (I was giving off crazy person vibes, and ignoring friendly conversations), but it does take a while to recalibrate cultural signals you don’t even realize you’re giving and getting. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/88 "2024-11-24T09:06:54Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > t it does take a while to recalibrate cultural signals you don’t even realize you’re giving and getting. Such as, in France, _always_ starting a conversation/enquiry with “Bonjour” - if you don’t, you risk coming across as abrupt and rude. I wonder if that was one they missed. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/89 "2024-11-24T10:07:38Z")
I’ve lived in Korea, off and on, since 2009. I am 63 and I doubt I could afford medical care in the States at this point. I work as a teacher on an E2 visa. If I ever move back to the States, returning to Korea would not be an option (although other countries might be). Craig Yoe, the 73-year-old underground cartoonist/author/publisher, moved to the Canary Islands on his wife’s EU citizenship five or six years ago. After kind of a sudden divorce, he moved to Cebu in the Philippines. Time will tell how sustainable that is. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/90 "2024-11-24T10:41:48Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Also many banks are now refusing to provide banking facilities to US nationals, because of the FATCA requirements, and closing the existing accounts of US persons. I can confirm that this is true in Canada. Canadian banks are fed up with US government reporting requirements for US citizens and generally find it easier to tell them to go away. I believe this is mostly due to US citizens having US tax liability forever regardless of where they live, unless they go through the process of renouncing US citizenship. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > The USA is still a great country. I actually agree that it is, so far. It may not be the greatest, but still pretty good, depending very much on your criteria. Undoubtedly the best country in the world for an entrepreneur to start a business and having the best chance of success and getting rich, but far from the best in terms of overall happiness and security. What it will be like four years from now is anyone’s guess and a rather frightening prospect. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/91 "2024-11-24T11:35:28Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > It’s the best place to live. We have rules. The political climate is shitty. > > Name me a place that doesn’t have violence, to a degree? Or some icky rule/law, that’s a pain? Not the best according to this: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world) Still, you are only number 23 on that list. It will be interesting to see which way you go in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/92 "2024-11-24T13:54:36Z")
Heck, my wife moved from Connecticut to North Carolina about 15 years ago and she found that she had to change to adjust to the cultural differences in the way people just casually talk to each other. Didn’t even have to leave the country. (“Why does everyone say ‘Hey!’ to me?”) ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/93 "2024-11-24T17:32:54Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > > > t it does take a while to recalibrate cultural signals you don’t even realize you’re giving and getting. > > Such as, in France, _always_ starting a conversation/inquiry with “Bonjour” - if you don’t, you risk coming across as abrupt and rude. I wonder if that was one they missed. I learned this one right quick several years ago when I was on a solo trip to Belgium. Always, always say Bonjour. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/94 "2024-11-24T17:41:39Z")
_Especially_ when approached by gun-toting gendarmerie in the Paris Metro who suspect you accidentally travelled outside your ticket zone. (Piper speaks from experience.) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/95 "2024-11-25T07:55:25Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VXHtKqZVzLA/maxresdefault.jpg "Americans moving to Canada receive a not-so-warm welcome... | This Hour Has 22 Minutes") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXHtKqZVzLA) ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/96 "2024-11-25T21:26:31Z")
That was weird. Good thing they held on to their rent-controlled apartment in San Fransisco, otherwise it might have gone to someone who really needed it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/97 "2024-11-25T21:40:10Z")
It’s a good question why they were able to retain the rent controlled apartment even after moving overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/98 "2024-11-25T22:06:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s a good question why they were able to retain the rent controlled apartment even after moving overseas. Keep paying rent. Sounds like they were pretty well-heeled and 40 years of rent control definitely drops it into the affordable bucket if you have decent income. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/99 "2024-11-25T22:13:49Z")
A nice daydream, but not really an option for me. At least while I am still working - even though I’ve been working 100% remotely for the past five years everything I do is ITAR restricted so has to be done inside the US. I believe I can get a Chinese passport. No thanks. Always thought Belize might be an option - English is the official language, currency is pegged to the US dollar. With my luck I’d retire there just in time for Guatemala to decide it was time to reclaim their missing provinces (maps in Guatemala do not show Belize, just Guatemala border extended to the Belize borders). ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810/100 "2024-12-31T16:29:05Z")
This is an informative thread. After the election, my wife has been asking me repeatedly about potentially moving to another country. I’m in my late 50’s, and still have about 5-7 years of “career” left in me with my current company. But I’m thinking of one of those “investment visa” type options, where you plop down a lump-sum, and this gives you in-roads into a place like Portugal, Austria, etc. If I stay in the states, I was thinking of moving to a bluer place (I’m in Georgia). Anyone here live in Hawaii? Anyone here live in Seattle? I’ve liked those locales when I’ve visited, but don’t know about taking the plunge to move there permanently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/leaving-usa-for-someplace-saner-easier-said-than-done/1009810.md?page=6)