# LeBron James hatred...explanations, please? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 22, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573 "2010-07-22T08:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/21 "2010-07-22T19:28:57Z")
> [@hopesperson](#): > > There are countless athletes all over the world who play their hearts out for the love of the game in college athletics, minor leagues, arena leagues, and other venues, often for very little or even no financial reward. Yes there are. But they don’t play in the NFL, NBA, MLB where it’s a business. If everyone played for love of the game there would never have been steroid scandals. Steroids that when users were asked “why” never hesitated to say “more performance equals more money”. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/22 "2010-07-22T19:32:26Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > So if James can make more money in Miami go for it. He took considerably less money to play in Miami. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/23 "2010-07-22T19:34:31Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Yes there are. But they don’t play in the NFL, NBA, MLB where it’s a business. > If everyone played for love of the game there would never have been steroid scandals. Steroids that when users were asked “why” never hesitated to say “more performance equals more money”. If they’ve never hesitated you must have plenty of cites. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/24 "2010-07-22T19:35:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > He took considerably less money to play in Miami. No state income tax in Florida + $$Miami area endorsement deals = more money ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/25 "2010-07-22T19:36:41Z")
Oh, come on now. Regional advertising is an issue for Lebron fucking James? He could have played in New York, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/26 "2010-07-22T19:40:17Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > No state income tax in Florida + $$Miami area endorsement deals = more money Uh, can you show a bit more of your math? How much he made in salary and endorsements last year would be a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/27 "2010-07-22T19:41:09Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > If they’ve never hesitated you must have plenty of cites. [From an ESPN article](From an ESPN article) And there was the pressure of living up to his previous performance and his multimillion-dollar salary, McGwire said, adding that he was “getting paid a lot of money to try to stay up to that level.” ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/28 "2010-07-22T19:42:19Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > No state income tax in Florida + $$Miami area endorsement deals = more money As I understand it, Cleveland could’ve paid James $30M than any other team. Factoring in the top Ohio marginal income tax rate, Cleveland could’ve paid him $28M than any other team even with the Ohio income tax. The endorsement money is largely equalized, given that endorsements are largely national and international now. James isn’t going to be shilling for local Miami merchants, just like he didn’t do so for Cleveland area merchants, because they can’t afford him. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/29 "2010-07-22T19:42:59Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Oh, come on now. Regional advertising is an issue for Lebron fucking James? He could have played in New York, you know. Yeah but we’re comparing South Beach to Cleveland here. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/30 "2010-07-22T19:46:44Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > [From an ESPN article](From an ESPN article) > And there was the pressure of living up to his previous performance and his multimillion-dollar salary, McGwire said, adding that he was “getting paid a lot of money to try to stay up to that level.” That’s an example of a guy saying he took steroids so he could live up to the level of performance he was already being paid for. If McGwire was admitting he was only in it for the money, he’d say the exact opposite of that. And we aren’t only comparing Cleveland to Miami. You said all athletes are just in it for the money, so we should look at all the options open to him, which includes New York. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/31 "2010-07-22T19:58:40Z")
Okay, let me take a step back here. While pros may not be in it just for the money, money is a big part of it. If not why bother even having an agent. But they are in it for themselves and loyalty to the supporting fans I think plays very little in their decisions. Favre while being appreciative of GreenBay really had no problem jumping ship. Joe Mauer may appear to have stayed in Minneapolis because he loves the Twins and Twins fans but I think he loves being close to his family and the big money the Twins gave him even more. ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/32 "2010-07-22T20:17:24Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Yes there are. But they don’t play in the NFL, NBA, MLB where it’s a business. > If everyone played for love of the game there would never have been steroid scandals. Steroids that when users were asked “why” never hesitated to say “more performance equals more money”. Nobody said _everyone_ is playing for the love of the game, but it was you who said _nobody_ plays for the love of the game. What of those pro athletes who didn’t use steroids, despite the fact that they may have made more money and gotten away with it? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/33 "2010-07-22T20:20:26Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > As I understand it, Cleveland could’ve paid James $30M than any other team. That might be true but the reason for that is because Cleveland could sign him for an extra year, in backloaded contracts like they have in the NBA that probably counted for the majority of the 30 million, and since Miami and Cleveland actually did a sign and trade for Lebron were he signed for Cleveland including that extra year and then got traded to Miami for a couple draft picks the difference is actually much less. He did take a pay cut though, but more in the vicinity of 1-2 mil a year for 6 years, not 30 million. I think a big part of the reason a lot of people are disappointed is because Lebron has the skills of Jordan but wants to be Pippen. Rather than have competitive rivalries he wanted to play with his buddies. Putting two of the top three and three of the top ten players in the league on the same team is not going to make for good basketball, unless another team pulls off some fantastic moves (come on magic make cp3 happen) the NBA is going to be quit boring for the next decade. Imagine if instead of the glorious Magic vs Bird era we would have had the Magic and Bird beat up on scrubs for 10 years era, Lebron Wade and Bosh would probably be playing football now. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/34 "2010-07-22T21:01:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And no, Hossa wasn’t QUITE the asshole James is, but he still acted like a dick to the fans and his teammates. He wasn’t obligated to stick around – but the way he left didn’t make him any friends. Hossa’s not a dick, IMO. I’m a Sens fan who always liked him, and he went where he thought he had the best chance to contribute. I’m happy he didn’t lose three straight cups with three straight teams. He would have hung himself. 😃 Now, you want to talk betrayal? Dany “M.F-ing” Heatley. Heatley gets huffy over the coach giving him less ice time, or maybe he cheated with Spezza’s gf. Whatever. Doesn’t matter. He goes public saying “I want to get traded.” He’s waving his no-trade cause he wants to leave. So Bryan Murray goes and finds a good deal with the Edmonton Oilers that’s actually going to help the Senators. But **no**. **Dany don’t wanna go.** That’s a punt to the old coin purse. Cavalier fans don’t know what betrayal is. “I can’t stand being on your team anymore, and I want to play anywhere but here…oh, and Edmonton.” ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/35 "2010-07-22T21:09:06Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > That’s a punt to the old coin purse. What the ? I’m sorry, I don’t speak Canuck. The only Canadian slang I know is 'Have another dough-nut". Translate please? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/36 "2010-07-22T22:05:18Z")
Kick in the balls. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/37 "2010-07-22T22:10:53Z")
He wasn’t a dick for leaving Pittsburgh – he was a dick for his comments WHEN he left. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/38 "2010-07-22T22:34:16Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Kick in the balls. Milles fois merci, monsieur! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/39 "2010-07-25T02:10:22Z")
Just getting back to this now. Okay, I’m _starting_ to get the picture, but at the same time I have a bunch of other questions. I guess I should have added a disclaimer that I’m not a fan of any NBA team…I pulled for the Suns a bit when they had Charles Barkley, and I think the Rockets’ two championships are underappreciated, but that’s about it. All right, then: Big T - I don’t have other guys. I don’t _care_ how “pure” his motives were (what is this, a war?). He was a free agent. As much as the team would want him to stay, they had a responsibility to be prepared for the possibility that he wouldn’t (in fact, given his attitude, they should’ve damn well _expected_ it). And I gotta say this again: What is it about the Cavaliers that made them worth any pity? When Barry Sanders flat-out quit on the Lions…when he was _still under contract_, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAMN SEASON…the consensus I heard was 1. he should’ve done it a lot sooner, 2. the owner was an incompetent moron for letting the situation get that bad, and 3. who gives a crap bout the Lions, anyway. I can see annoyance, aggravation, rage, I can see the desire for revenge and shadenfreude. I do not see how this amounts to a horrible injustice against a glorious franchise, nor how the owner’s tirade was anything but nonsensical raving that has a fairly good chance of biting him in the butt. Stink Fish Pot - So because of one self-indulgent one-hour special on ESPN (and really, this is just another day at the office for them), you hope he _never_ succeeds? See, if he does something like this _every_ year, I can see how it would get annoying as hell. But it was one and done. And if you didn’t want to slog through the whole thing, you could’ve just watched the last 5 minutes. Y’know, like a results show. Sigmagirl - Yes, he was overhyped. Yes, the people of Cleveland put him on a pedestal. I completely fail to see how he’s the slightest bit accountable for this. I’m sure that the good folks of Orlando were absolutely crushed when Shaquille O’Neal chased the money to LA (and they were _very_ close to a championship-caliber team), but you know what? As a sports fan, you just gotta be ready for it. There was no massive outpouring of sympathy for the Magic. Which is just how it should’ve been. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. arseNal - Okay, you’re new here and haven’t read my previous takes on the subject, so here it is: Michael Jordan _is_ God. Meaning that he gets ALL the credit for everything the Chicago Bulls ever accomplished, despite the fact that he has the most versatile small forward in history in the frontcourt, Scottie Pippen, who _also_ didn’t mind being in Jordan’s shadow or being underpaid so long as the team succeeded (Think about that for a while. Just think about it.), a very capable grinder (Horace Grant) and later a bionic rebounding machine (Dennis Rodman) at power forward, AND a coach with the perfect touch to assemble all the parts into a juggernaut. I’m not doubting Jordan’s greatness, but the idea that it was all him is ridiculous…an idea which **will never, ever be challenged, ever** , and if anything grow even stronger as his career recedes into history. The only other athlete in history who’s even close to this level of unbridled slavic worship is Joe Montana, and being succeeded by Steve Young took a lot out of it. (Tiger Woods was on his way before that, er, unfortunate accident.) No one is taking Jordan’s place as the Greatest Basketball Player Of All Time For All Eternity. Ever. So if I were an NBA megastar, I’d rather it not be an issue. Ever. I’d switch the subject to Bill Laimbeer if it came to that. DigitalC - Well, I can kinda see this argument. But even if the NBA wanted to prevent overwhelmingly dominant teams, how would it? It doesn’t take that much, especially with as diluted a talent pool as there is now; heck, the San Antonio Spurs made a small dynasty out of little more than a dominating power foward and a physically imposing but underachieving center. If the Heat becomes an unstoppable powerhouse, we’re just gonna have to ride it out and wait for someone to get old or jump ship, as we have for the Lakers and Celtics so many times. Look, I’ve seen things in the NBA that called for massive outrage. The lockout. The brawl in the Palace. Spree choking a coach. Rodman kicking a photographer in the groin. This is a megahyped player acting like a colossal jerk for one day, a struggling city being bitterly disappointed, and a groupthink decision. Annoying, vexing, forehead-slapping, yes, but nothing I haven’t seen in this league a thousand times. It’s a business, and a frequently sordid and dirty one, and if you’re a fan, well, you gotta accept it. (Just like you gotta accept horrible, forever irreversible calls if you’re a baseball fan. Which is why I’m not a baseball fan.) Here, I’ll ask this as well: What do you think of Shaquille O’Neal? #1 draft pick, the hope of a rising franchise, the biggest name in Orlando that didn’t have round black ears. Some very rough early seasons, but you could definitely see the potential, and he’s only going to get better. Then Orlando catches the break of a lifetime, snagging the #1 pick despite having the best record of all the teams to not make the playoffs, and they get the versatile Anfernee Hardaway out of it…and THEN pick up Horace Grant in free agency. In 1995, they beat the Michael Jordan-led Bulls (the only team to EVER do this) en route to a conference championship. Although they’d lose to the Rockets, it was clear that Shaq had come into his own and it was only a matter of time before the Magic won it all. And then his contract expired, and through the bidding wars, the siren song of untold riches came to him out of Los Angeles, headed by megastar Kobe Bryant. He knew the Magic would be heartbroken (especially his good friend Penny Hardaway). He knew that it would make him look like a crass mercenary. He knew that no matter how many titles he won in LA, he would not have Done It All By Himself (because apparently there _is_ an I in team if you squint really hard :rolleyes: ). He didn’t care. And he won three titles, driving a few more stakes into the hearts of Magic fans and turning that quote about winning at every level except college and pro from an albatross to an unfunny anecdote. And later he went to Miami…yes, Miami!..and won another. Did he make all the wrong choices? Should he be shamed at never having to carry the team on his back? And chasing the money? Was he classier than James, more discreet? Was there simply so much else to hate him for that going from team to team simply didn’t register? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/40 "2010-07-25T02:16:49Z")
Barry left just before training camp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573.md?page=3)