# LeBron James hatred...explanations, please? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 22, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573 "2010-07-22T08:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/41 "2010-07-25T15:43:33Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I’m also one of those people who like to see a player stay with the same team throughout his career. Part of my reasoning for this is that a team like Cleveland rarely gets a chance to have a Lebron James. \ this. living in san antonio we also went through the anguish of maybe losing timmy to orlando when hill had already signed up. he realistically would have made more money and had better chances of more rings but he said, screw that, i’m sticking with the folks that raised me. in short, he basically said that relationships are more important than the other stuff. lebron is nothing more than a self centered jackass. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/42 "2010-07-25T18:39:16Z")
For me it’s not really about the ultimate Look At Me! that his stupid special was, but his seeming lack of competitive spirit that so offends. Michael Jordan would never call up Bird and Magic and get them all on the same team to make it easier to win. Fuck that bullshit, he’d damn well roll right through them. Y’know? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/43 "2010-07-26T19:07:56Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > I can see annoyance, aggravation, rage, I can see the desire for revenge and shadenfreude. I do not see how this amounts to a horrible injustice against a glorious franchise, I’m not sure anyone has put it the way you do there. I think it’s annoying/aggravating, and I hope he fails and will be pleased, as a sports fan, if he does. I would really hate for what he did to become a trend, because as a sports fan, I think it would make the game boring. If it works, it may become a trend. If LeBron James retires with zero (or even as many as one or two) rings, it probably won’t. No one, that I have seen, has used anything like the phrase “horrible injustice against a glorious franchise.” What people are saying is more like “cowardly and kind of douchey.” > [@](#): > > nor how the owner’s tirade was anything but nonsensical raving that has a fairly good chance of biting him in the butt. Dan Gilbert still needs to _sell seats at his arena._ He needs the fans to come, and he can no longer depend on 60 wins a year to get them there. His tirade was exactly this: an attempt to motivate Cleveland fans to come to that arena just to spite LeBron James, an attempt to get the fans angry enough at James that they are invested in NBA basketball for the coming season. It might not work… but it might. If Cleveland can pull even a playoff _run_ out of that roster this year, and if James does anything less than win 60+ games and a title, it probably will. > [@](#): > > Stink Fish Pot - So because of one self-indulgent one-hour special on ESPN (and really, this is just another day at the office for them), you hope he _never_ succeeds? See, if he does something like this _every_ year, I can see how it would get annoying as hell. But it was one and done. And if you didn’t want to slog through the whole thing, you could’ve just watched the last 5 minutes. Y’know, like a results show. You keep ignoring the fact that by stretching it into an hour, he intentionally and deliberately stuck it to the fans of Cleveland who were hoping he’d stay. He owes them nothing, of course… but they owe _him_ nothing, either. He has every right to treat them like gum he finally scraped off his sneakers; they (and those sympathetic to their cause) have equal right to think he’s a putz and root against him in return. > [@](#): > > No one is taking Jordan’s place as the Greatest Basketball Player Of All Time For All Eternity. Ever. So if I were an NBA megastar, I’d rather it not be an issue. Ever. I’d switch the subject to Bill Laimbeer if it came to that. You’re missing the point, kinda. Jordan, like Communism, is a red herring. First and foremost, you’re wrong. If LeBron James had won five or six titles with the Cavs, he’d have been placed next to Jordan in almost everyone’s list. If he’d won seven or eight titles with the Cavs, he’d have been placed above Jordan. But equally important: it’s not just about Jordan. It’s also about Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Wilt, Duncan, West, and Kobe. No matter what happens in Miami, LeBron has now sacrificed any hope of joining that group. Dwyane Wade has a better shot of it now. Every one of those players will forever be considered greater than LeBron, no matter what he does, what he accomplishes statistically, no matter how many titles his superteam wins (if his superteam fails to win at least three titles, LeBron won’t even make the Top 20 conversation). That’s what bugs _me_, frankly. Forget Jordan. LeBron James had a chance to put his name among the all-time greats. You want to be one of the greatest, you have to be the Man. Period. Talk around it all you want. Sure, Magic had James Worthy. But Magic was the Man. Bird had Parrish, McHale, and for a while Bill Walton. But Bird was the Man. Duncan played with David Robinson, an all-timer, briefly - but he became the Man when Robinson retired and showed he could be the Man for a championship team. Kobe wasn’t the Man when he won with Shaq, but he most assuredly is now. Thing is, if you take the responsibility of owning a team that way, you take the risk that you won’t ever win a championship, and then you get downgraded. Then you’re Karl Malone. LeBron wasn’t convinced of his own ability to be the Man for a title team, so he ran and hid behind someone who definitively proved that he can be. He gave up a chance to be transcendant in order to assure that he would be “great.” Instead of saying, “fuck it, I’m better than anyone and I can beat anyone and I’m going to prove it,” he decided to defer to Dwyane Wade. That’s lame and pitiful and I don’t respect him for it. > [@](#): > > And then his contract expired, and through the bidding wars, the siren song of untold riches came to him out of Los Angeles, headed by megastar Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant was not a megastar. Kobe Bryant was a rookie. A highly regarded rookie, but it is only with the magic of hindsight that you can characterize him as a megastar. In '96-'97 he scored less than eight points a game. Shaq’s first title came in a season where Kobe, while a good player, was not yet the monster he would become. Of course Shaq wanted to play with a good player, but this wasn’t LeBron running to hide behind the skirt of an established superstar with a borderline Hall of Fame resume. This was Shaq going to be the undenied Number One Guy on a team otherwise led by Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel, that happened to have a promising rookie at the end of the bench. > [@](#): > > He knew the Magic would be heartbroken (especially his good friend Penny Hardaway). He knew that it would make him look like a crass mercenary. He knew that no matter how many titles he won in LA, he would not have Done It All By Himself (because apparently there _is_ an I in team if you squint really hard :rolleyes: ). See above. It’s not about doing it All By Himself. It’s about being the star. > [@](#): > > Did he make all the wrong choices? Should he be shamed at never having to carry the team on his back? Again, in his first year with the Lakers, the leading non-Shaq scorer was Eddie Jones. He outscored Kobe on a per game basis for each of their first three shared championship seasons. That was _Shaq’s_ team. It was precisely because it was time for it to become _Kobe’s_ team that the two players started to clash and Shaq eventually departed. > [@](#): > > Was he classier than James, more discreet? Unless I missed the hourlong prime-time fuck you to the city of Orlando, then yes. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/44 "2010-07-26T19:25:01Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Michael Jordan _is_ God. Meaning that he gets ALL the credit for everything the Chicago Bulls ever accomplished, despite the fact that he has the most versatile small forward in history in the frontcourt, Scottie Pippen, who _also_ didn’t mind being in Jordan’s shadow or being underpaid so long as the team succeeded (Think about that for a while. Just think about it.) This is part of what surprised people, I think. We thought LeBron was the new Jordan, but now it looks like he’s the new Pippen instead. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/45 "2010-07-26T20:33:19Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Here, I’ll ask this as well: What do you think of Shaquille O’Neal? #1 draft pick, the hope of a rising franchise, the biggest name in Orlando that didn’t have round black ears. Some very rough early seasons, but you could definitely see the potential, and he’s only going to get better. Then Orlando catches the break of a lifetime, snagging the #1 pick despite having the best record of all the teams to not make the playoffs, and they get the versatile Anfernee Hardaway out of it…and THEN pick up Horace Grant in free agency. In 1995, they beat the Michael Jordan-led Bulls (the only team to EVER do this) en route to a conference championship. Although they’d lose to the Rockets, it was clear that Shaq had come into his own and it was only a matter of time before the Magic won it all. > > And then his contract expired, and through the bidding wars, the siren song of untold riches came to him out of Los Angeles, headed by megastar Kobe Bryant. He knew the Magic would be heartbroken (especially his good friend Penny Hardaway). He knew that it would make him look like a crass mercenary. He knew that no matter how many titles he won in LA, he would not have Done It All By Himself (because apparently there _is_ an I in team if you squint really hard :rolleyes: ). He didn’t care. And he won three titles, driving a few more stakes into the hearts of Magic fans and turning that quote about winning at every level except college and pro from an albatross to an unfunny anecdote. > > And later he went to Miami…yes, Miami!..and won another. > > Did he make all the wrong choices? Should he be shamed at never having to carry the team on his back? And chasing the money? Was he classier than James, more discreet? Was there simply so much else to hate him for that going from team to team simply didn’t register? Lakers fan here so maybe I can chime in with my point of view I don’t really remember the circumstances surrounding Shaq leaving the Magic. I’m sure he was hated in Orlando and continues to be now that he insults Dwight Howard whenever he gets the chance. But Shaq wasn’t an Orlando guy, he wasn’t a homegrown product like Lebron was. Add to that, Orlando sports doesn’t have the sordid and miserable history as Cleveland does. Being in southern Florida, the city is also not seen as a kind of snowy hellhole that is unattractive to free agents either When Shaq left, it was simply because he wanted to be in a different place, have more money, and maybe do it in LA. Lebron, on the other hand, coined the summer of 2010 to be the biggest one in NBA history _2 years ago!_ Add that to the whole “making your hometown wait on your decision” and all of the rumors that he had this planned out weeks if not months ago, then you start to see the difference between the way Shaq left and the way Lebron left. Lebron didn’t give his town the courtesy of a warning either. He strung them along until the last possible moment, making Cleveland unable to participate in the free agent feeding frenzy that other teams took advantage of. Also, during his special, he never once thanks his town or his team or the fans. Why not? If players are only looking out for themselves and their money, then they should at least show some appreciation for the fans who paid his salary. Also, Shaq didn’t go join a megastar in Kobe. Kobe was only a rookie the year that Shaq came over. And the 13th pick at that, and straight out of high school. Nobody knew he was going to be as good as he is now except maybe Jerry West. Shaq came to LA not to join forces but to establish his own legacy. ---
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/46 "2010-07-26T21:01:41Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > arseNal - Okay, you’re new here and haven’t read my previous takes on the subject, so here it is: Michael Jordan _is_ God. \ No one is taking Jordan’s place as the Greatest Basketball Player Of All Time For All Eternity. Ever. So if I were an NBA megastar, I’d rather it not be an issue. Ever. I’d switch the subject to Bill Laimbeer if it came to that. I think you’re overstating this somewhat. People _want_ someone to come along and be as great or greater than Jordan. Why do you think every time some phenom is up and coming, the comparisons to Jordan start anew? Like **storyteller0910** said, if Lebron won a few rings in Cleveland, I think there’d be plenty of people ready to anoint him the new GOAT. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/47 "2010-07-27T07:07:30Z")
As much as I think he could have handled the situation better, I think it’s important to note that his special raised $2.5 million for the Boys & Girls Club. Also, assuming he doesn’t want to be “the man”, what is wrong with that? Does everyone here aspire to be the CEO of their company, or the best in their entire profession? People often make calculations like this based on a lot of things, and usually, it doesn’t reflect negatively on them. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/48 "2010-07-27T15:32:25Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > As much as I think he could have handled the situation better, I think it’s important to note that his special raised $2.5 million for the Boys & Girls Club. Bah humbug. The Boys & Girls Clubs were used as a fig leaf. The fact that LeBron did a rotten thing, and charity benefited, doesn’t mean that LeBron didn’t do a rotten thing. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Also, assuming he doesn’t want to be “the man”, what is wrong with that? Does everyone here aspire to be the CEO of their company, or the best in their entire profession? People often make calculations like this based on a lot of things, and usually, it doesn’t reflect negatively on them. That’s true. Such people trade off increased pay for the decreased workplace pressure. Here though, James instead takes the high pay the CEO would make, without the CEO’s high pressure job and responsibilities, which is hardly an example of exemplary conduct. (Whether CEOs deserve all that pay is a different argument of course. (They don’t BTW)) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/49 "2010-07-28T23:32:19Z")
I think [this](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/more/07/20/heat.feature/index.html) article covers it pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/50 "2010-07-28T23:38:00Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > As much as I think he could have handled the situation better, I think it’s important to note that his special raised $2.5 million for the Boys & Girls Club. In Greenwich, CT, one of the richest towns in the country? Bully for him. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/51 "2010-07-29T00:26:10Z")
I’d say another reason is that it seems to add to the image that NBA teams half ass it through the regular season and then try to turn it on once the playoffs start. It makes it seem like Lebron and the others care more about getting to the nightclubs on South Beach than actually trying to win. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573/52 "2010-08-06T11:11:12Z")
I hate any sports figure who gets referred to by his first name more than his last name. Yes, that includes that sellout wife-beater MICHAEL. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-james-hatred-explanations-please/547573.md?page=2)