# LeBron opts out...what's his future? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 24, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535 "2014-06-24T14:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/61 "2014-06-25T21:41:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They already have David Lee, who plays bad defense and grabs a lot of rebounds. Love’s value is in his combination of size and great shooting. You can’t expect much else. To be fair, saying they are both good at grabbing rebounds is a bit like saying Clayton Kershaw and CC Sabathia are both good at striking people out. Yes, it’s true, but Kevin Love is a truly elite rebounder, one of the best 5 in the NBA, whereas Lee is more like top 40. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/62 "2014-06-25T22:03:48Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > To be fair, saying they are both good at grabbing rebounds is a bit like saying Clayton Kershaw and CC Sabathia are both good at striking people out. Yes, it’s true, but Kevin Love is a truly elite rebounder, one of the best 5 in the NBA, whereas Lee is more like top 40. Last year Love averaged three more rebounds per game than Lee did, and I’ll grant that he’s really good at baseball passes. He’s better, but I don’t think it radically changes their offense or defense. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/63 "2014-06-25T22:36:45Z")
Love was 4th in the NBA in scoring and 3rd in rebounds, and you don’t think he moves the needle much? If I’m a GM and I can build my team around Curry and Love for the next ten years, I’d be ecstatic. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/64 "2014-06-26T02:29:37Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Re: this part, would you not agree that a bad defensive team (say, one that allows teams to shoot 65% near the rim) that can’t rebound will score more points than an identically bad defensive team that can? Again, it won’t transform bad defense into good, but it’ll make it somewhat less bad. Of course. Somebody needs to end the possession, obviously. Given two identical players, one of whom gets more defensive rebounds, it’s very likely that you’ll give up fewer points with that one. And Kevin Love is a good defensive rebounder. Whether that makes him a better defensive player than X is a different question. Unrelatedly, let me just say how much I enjoy the phrase “hard-nosed … Harrison Barnes.” If you locked me in a room and told me to talk about Harrison Barnes until I said the magic phrase, I’d starve to death before I got to that one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/65 "2014-06-26T04:11:20Z")
And another opening move gets made: [Houston will trade Omer Asik to New Orleans for a protected first-round pick.](http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11137117/houston-rockets-agree-trade-omer-asik-new-orleans-pelicans-according-sources) > [@Dumbguy](#): > > Love was 4th in the NBA in scoring and 3rd in rebounds, and you don’t think he moves the needle much? Sure he does. He makes them a significantly better team in my opinion because he pretty much gives you the best part of Thompson’s offensive game and the best part of Lee’s in one defense-stretching guy. I was talking about his rebounding: > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Golden State won’t be terrible because Love’s rebounding should compliment them. […] If Love goes there and grabs rebounds, that opens them up much more for fast breaks and that team is, if anything, fast. It should at least help their defense a bit and it won’t hurt their scoring at all. He doesn’t give them that much extra rebounding compared to Lee, so I don’t think that makes a lot of difference. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/66 "2014-06-26T06:28:20Z")
I can’t wait for the draft tomorrow. This is the only time ever that I’ve been able to say that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/67 "2014-06-26T11:49:46Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Of course. Somebody needs to end the possession, obviously. Given two identical players, one of whom gets more defensive rebounds, it’s very likely that you’ll give up fewer points with that one. And Kevin Love is a good defensive rebounder. > > Whether that makes him a better defensive player than X is a different question. I think it’s safe to say it makes him a better defensive player than Martin, but I admit to applying no academic rigor to the issue. > [@Marley23](#): > > And another opening move gets made: [Houston will trade Omer Asik to New Orleans for a protected first-round pick.](http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11137117/houston-rockets-agree-trade-omer-asik-new-orleans-pelicans-according-sources) Ugh. If New Orleans hadn’t made the inexplicable decision to lavish $44 million on Tyreke Evans, they could have kept Robin Lopez and his dirt-cheap salary, and wouldn’t have to mortgage their future like this (having already traded this year’s #1 for Jrue Holiday last season). They need a center, badly, but they didn’t need to go about it this way. Hopefully this will help Anthony Davis stay healthy all year, as well. Also, doesn’t the Stepien Rule prohibit New Orleans from trading their 2015 #1 pick when they’ve already traded their 2014 #1 pick? What am I missing here? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I can’t wait for the draft tomorrow. This is the only time ever that I’ve been able to say that. Who do you think your Lakers will take? Who do you want them to take? I think they’re a likely landing spot for my man Julius Randle. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/68 "2014-06-26T12:49:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Also, doesn’t the Stepien Rule prohibit New Orleans from trading their 2015 #1 pick when they’ve already traded their 2014 #1 pick? What am I missing here? It’s a frame of reference thing. The rule only applies to future first rounders at the time of the trade. You can trade next year’s first rounder every year, if you like; you just have to do it one year at a time. This trade won’t officially happen until after tonight’s draft, which will mean that as of the time of the trade, they won’t be trading away consecutive future picks. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/69 "2014-06-26T15:25:31Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > It’s a frame of reference thing. The rule only applies to future first rounders at the time of the trade. You can trade next year’s first rounder every year, if you like; you just have to do it one year at a time. > > This trade won’t officially happen until after tonight’s draft, which will mean that as of the time of the trade, they won’t be trading away consecutive future picks. Ah, I see. It is less restrictive than I assumed, then. Thanks for the information. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/70 "2014-06-26T16:52:23Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Who do you think your Lakers will take? Who do you want them to take? > > I think they’re a likely landing spot for my man Julius Randle. I think its a tossup between him and Marcus Smart. If Dante Exum makes it down there, they take him, I’ve heard good things on local radio about how he wants to play for the Lakers. On the slight chance that Embiid’s stock drops down this far, there seems to be a few people saying that the Lakers are willing to gamble on him. So realistically, Embiid, Exum, and Randle/Smart. But I’m sure they’d trade the pick happily if they can get Klay Thompson or Kevin Love. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/71 "2014-06-29T03:10:34Z")
Just as an update: the Heat drafted the guy LeBron wanted them to draft (Riley was also a fan), and it sounds like LeBron, Bosh, Wade, and Haslem will all opt out of their contracts. That gives Miami as much cap space as it could possibly have right now and it would seem to bode well for their chances of re-signing all three guys and adding some other pieces. The report today was that LeBron wants something close to a max deal and the other two might be willing to take less to make this work. ---
**Author:** ![cerebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@cerebus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerebus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/72 "2014-06-29T13:46:53Z")
^^ Maybe some of the cap experts could chime in but I read earlier that opting out doesn’t actually give them salary cap room unless the Heat renounces all their bird rights. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/73 "2014-06-30T18:56:21Z")
As good of friends they are, IMO needs to throw Wade under the bus, and only come back to Miami if Wade doesn’t, Bosh is basically irrelevant to James’s plans. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/74 "2014-06-30T19:08:55Z")
> [@cerebus](#): > > ^^ Maybe some of the cap experts could chime in but I read earlier that opting out doesn’t actually give them salary cap room unless the Heat renounces all their bird rights. I think that’s true. Although once they’re signed, I think that cap space is available. There are more reports today that LeBron wants a max contract, possibly not for five years, and just wants the other guys to take less. If so, Miami isn’t really going to have a lot of room to add players. Still, I can see the reasoning for him: aside from the money itself, he’s the best player in the league, he’s never been the highest-paid player on his own team and he is probably questioning the wisdom of sacrificing money for the team when they cut Mike Miller loose the way they did. > [@etv78](#): > > As good of friends they are, IMO needs to throw Wade under the bus, and only come back to Miami if Wade doesn’t, Bosh is basically irrelevant to James’s plans. I don’t see it happening, and I don’t think Wade would have opted out if he thought anything like this was happening. And Bosh is not at all irrelevant: he’s a very good player and a very big contract. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/75 "2014-06-30T19:30:06Z")
Bosh is irrelevant because I don’t see Lebron caring what he does as much as he cares what Wade does. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/76 "2014-06-30T20:08:41Z")
I think that if Wade had opted in and taken his $20 million salary for this year, Miami would have become a lot less appealing for LeBron, sure. But Bosh would be very hard to replace as he’s flexible and probably their second-best player at this point. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/77 "2014-06-30T20:22:40Z")
Yup, I agree he’s eclipsed Wade in the Big 3 pecking order. He seems like an American with a European game, if that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/78 "2014-07-01T13:52:01Z")
Just read Grantland, and yes Miami does need to renounce the Big 3’s Bird Rights to give them max deals. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/79 "2014-07-01T14:27:15Z")
That’s not correct. Miami has no ability to offer three max deals other than by exercising Bird rights. The issue is that they need to renounce the rights to have extra cap room when they sign those three to deals at lower than the max X3. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535/80 "2014-07-01T14:39:10Z")
Thanks Jimmy. Assumed I screwed up the “max contract” part. Wanted more than “must renounce Bird rights”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-opts-out-whats-his-future/691535.md?page=5)