# LeBron to return to Cleveland **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 11, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875 "2014-07-11T17:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/41 "2014-07-11T21:43:25Z")
I mean absoluely no disrespect to David Blatt, who has proven himself a very smart and capable coach in international basketball. But I thought Blatt’s lack of NBA experience in any capacity might have been a disincentve to LeBron. Apparently not. A very smart coach and complete NBA outsider has been handed the most talented player in the world. This should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/42 "2014-07-11T21:44:49Z")
Wow, it looks like the Heat are going to keep Bosh after all. He’s going to sign a five year deal for $118 million. If so, sucks to be Houston. Bosh and Wade and Harden would have been an outstanding combination. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/43 "2014-07-11T21:46:03Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why wouldn’t they “screw” him? I think they still want to be a decent team, so paying him almost double what he is worth is not a smart move. Maybe they will given that they Lakers did it for their star, but I wouldn’t count on it. Because that’s a stupid way to run an organization. You do that, people will notice, and you’ve tarnished the team’s rep for years. Good luck convincing free agents to sign for the next five years. Brand image matters. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/44 "2014-07-11T21:46:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > One element that shouldn’t be lost in this, including the discussion about the appeal of going back to Cleveland, is how Miami cost themselves LeBron by getting cheap. After they won two championships they couldn’t have been in better position to keep him, but after last season they amnestied Mike Miller even though he was a very valuable player and business must’ve been booming in every way. Mike Miller was in pretty bad shape at the time having never played more than 60 games in a season for the Heat. Keeping Miller would have cost the Heat $40mm in taxes. Yes, Miller was a good player at times, but let’s get serious. Especially given that Ray Allen (who came in to improve the roster) is a better shooter. > [@Marley23](#): > > They did that because they didn’t want to spend more than a certain amount. There’s no question it hurt the team. Not really. They were still one of the best teams in the NBA. Yes, the Spurs lit them up, but basically the same Spurs team lost the previous year, and wasn’t even in the finals for a number of the previous years. It’s not like the Heat were passing up opportunities to sign people because of money. An open checkbook doesn’t entitle you to any player you want. Just look at Brooklyn. Mike Miller was certainly not a difference maker, and given the signing of Allen, and others, I think it’s clear the Heat just misjudged how well the team would respond in crunch time. Even so, getting to 4 straight finals is damn impressive, and not indicative of a team that wasn’t trying to improve. > [@Marley23](#): > > That was true this offseason, too. They weren’t going to blow up the books to get a Gortat or Lowry. They wanted to keep LeBron and Wade and Bosh together and improve the supporting cast, but only so much, with the same kinds of pieces they’d used the last couple of years even though that model was looking shaky and there was a risk of diminishing returns. They wouldn’t go over that $80.7 million tax apron. To me that’s an important reason LeBron insisted on a max salary: his teammates (Wade especially) were faltering and ownership was drawing a hard line on payroll, so he wasn’t going to reward them by taking less money than he was entitled to. In the end the Heat couldn’t put together a good enough team within those constraints. Then why ask Wade to opt out? > [@Marley23](#): > > Cleveland, partly because they lucked into great picks, has a young team that might fit him very well. It’s amazing to think of the Cavs topping the Heat from an ownership and management perspective, but from that point of view, they did. The accident of fate that Lebron was born in Ohio, and thus has an affinity for the local team does not mean the Cavs are a well run organization. > [@Marley23](#): > > It’s tens of millions of dollars. Oh, and the NBA might be looking at another lockout in a couple of years. How do you figure it’s tens of millions? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/45 "2014-07-11T21:48:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > One element that shouldn’t be lost in this, including the discussion about the appeal of going back to Cleveland, is how Miami cost themselves LeBron by getting cheap. After they won two championships they couldn’t have been in better position to keep him, but after last season they amnestied Mike Miller even though he was a very valuable player and business must’ve been booming in every way. They did that because they didn’t want to spend more than a certain amount. There’s no question it hurt the team. That was true this offseason, too. They weren’t going to blow up the books to get a Gortat or Lowry. They wanted to keep LeBron and Wade and Bosh together and improve the supporting cast, but only so much, with the same kinds of pieces they’d used the last couple of years even though that model was looking shaky and there was a risk of diminishing returns. They wouldn’t go over that $80.7 million tax apron. To me that’s an important reason LeBron insisted on a max salary: his teammates (Wade especially) were faltering and ownership was drawing a hard line on payroll, so he wasn’t going to reward them by taking less money than he was entitled to. In the end the Heat couldn’t put together a good enough team within those constraints. Cleveland, partly because they lucked into great picks, has a young team that might fit him very well. It’s amazing to think of the Cavs topping the Heat from an ownership and management perspective, but from that point of view, they did. Exactly. Heat ownership screwed the pooch big time. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/46 "2014-07-11T21:50:24Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But I thought Blatt’s lack of NBA experience in any capacity might have been a disincentve to LeBron. Apparently not. I wouldn’t conclude that … All we know is that it wasn’t enough of a disincentive to be a deal breaker. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/47 "2014-07-11T21:50:52Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Because that’s a stupid way to run an organization. You do that, people will notice, and you’ve tarnished the team’s rep for years. Good luck convincing free agents to sign for the next five years. Brand image matters. People have short memories. Does anyone fault Dallas for getting rid of Nash? Does anyone hate the Lakers for trading Shaq or repeatedly trying to trade Gasol? Ultimately, we are talking about spending millions a dollars that could be spent on other (better) players. I don’t think they will try to take him to the cleaners, but they are NOT going to pay him anywhere near $20mm+ for the next two years. This is still a business run by sensible people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/48 "2014-07-11T22:05:03Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Mike Miller was in pretty bad shape at the time having never played more than 60 games in a season for the Heat. Keeping Miller would have cost the Heat $40mm in taxes. Yes, Miller was a good player at times, but let’s get serious. Especially given that Ray Allen (who came in to improve the roster) is a better shooter. This is wrong. Allen and Miller were both on the team last year, and while Allen is a better shooter, Miller was more valuable defensively. You’re right that Miller had missed a bunch of time with injuries. On the other hand he did not miss a single game this year. And yes, it would’ve cost the team tax money. They made a business decision, and it cost them. > [@](#): > > Not really. Yes, really. They won 66 games two years ago and 54 games this year. I don’t think you could find a single measure where they were better this year than the year before. They beat the Spurs last year and were crushed by them this year. Miller was not all the difference, of course. But you can’t tell me that made the team better. It made it worse to save money. LeBron and Wade and Bosh all sacrificed millions of dollars, and the Heat made it clear ownership would only sacrifice to a point. You can’t tell me that wasn’t a big deal. > [@](#): > > It’s not like the Heat were passing up opportunities to sign people because of money. Of course they were. > [@](#): > > An open checkbook doesn’t entitle you to any player you want. Just look at Brooklyn. I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove. Brooklyn spends lots of money incompetently, but they haven’t missed out on a lot of guys they wanted. > [@](#): > > I think it’s clear the Heat just misjudged how well the team would respond in crunch time. You know whose defense and three-point shooting helped them in crunch time last season? I’ll let you guess. Hint: he is probably going to join LeBron in Cleveland. > [@](#): > > Even so, getting to 4 straight finals is damn impressive, and not indicative of a team that wasn’t trying to improve. Their run is historic, and I did not say the team wasn’t trying to improve. I said they wanted to improve but weren’t willing to spend more than a certain dollar amount to do it. As a result they could only move the needle so much in their acquisitions; they weren’t going to shell out for a free agent who could have made a major difference. This is one of the results of that decision. > [@](#): > > Then why ask Wade to opt out? I don’t really understand the question. Wade opting out gave them a little flexibility, but only a little. He was willing to give up some money, but only so much. > [@](#): > > The accident of fate that Lebron was born in Ohio, and thus has an affinity for the local team does not mean the Cavs are a well run organization. I just got through saying “It’s amazing to think of the Cavs topping the Heat from an ownership and management perspective, but from that point of view, they did.” Mostly because of a series of errors that left them with young players and cap room, they were able to put a more interesting roster together. > [@](#): > > How do you figure it’s tens of millions? For Carmelo Anthony, the difference between the Knicks and Lakers is about $32 million. For Bosh, the difference between the Heat and Rockets was about $30 million. Love is younger and thus not eligible for as great a salary (this will be his seventh season), but the difference would be substantial. A player’s current team can always offer him five years vs. four, which makes a big difference by itself, and a higher annual salary. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/49 "2014-07-11T22:25:58Z")
The point above, just to emphasize, is not that LeBron went back to Cleveland because the Heat let Mike Miller go. There were other issues working against them, like Wade’s decline, their awkward dance in making LeBron’s salary work with Wade’s and Bosh’s, and the hometown issue. It’s that the Heat left the door open by placing a hard limit on their spending last year and this year, and in the end LeBron walked out. Lots of stuff happening elsewhere! The Lakers just re-signed Jordan Hill for two years/$18 million and Nick Young for four/$21.5 million. I don’t know how that fits with their cap space plans, because now they have much less. Isaiah Thomas is going to get traded from the Kings to the Suns, it sounds like. Still no word on Carmelo. One thing I think you can say for sure is that the East will be a little more balanced at least. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/50 "2014-07-11T22:32:00Z")
Bosh back to Miami for max money, good. I would have hated to see even more talent flowing from East to West. Maybe it can go the other way for a change if Cleveland gets Love. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/51 "2014-07-11T23:11:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By the way, this wouldn’t be possible if the Wolves hadn’t insulted Love with an illogically low contract offer and an opt-out clause several of years ago. That and poor draft picks made it almost a sure thing he was eventually going to leave town. Maybe some bad luck with injuries could have changed it, but they could have avoided the whole thing. Also being in Minnesota was going to force him out eventually. 😃 > [@Marley23](#): > > Wow, it looks like the Heat are going to keep Bosh after all. He’s going to sign a five year deal for $118 million. If so, sucks to be Houston. Bosh and Wade and Harden would have been an outstanding combination. I didn’t hear anything about Wade going with Bosh to the Rockets. Did you mean Howard? > [@DigitalC](#): > > Bosh back to Miami for max money, good. I would have hated to see even more talent flowing from East to West. Maybe it can go the other way for a change if Cleveland gets Love. Though I’m in the West and directly benefit, it would really help my regular season watching if the East can have any kind of consistency. Love is not gonna do it by himself, the East needs a total overhaul. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/52 "2014-07-11T23:29:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is wrong. Allen and Miller were both on the team last year, You are wrong. Miller player for Memphis last season. > [@Marley23](#): > > and while Allen is a better shooter, Miller was more valuable defensively. Again, you are wrong. Both are defensive liabilities. Miller more so when he was on the Heat because of noticeable injuries. Last season Allen’s defensive win share was 1.5 (#155) of compared to Miller’s 1.4 (#176). Practically no difference. Given Allen actually _played_ and is a better shooter, the loss of Miller was negligible given the costs. You can’t call a team cheap for doing what EVERY SINGLE OTHER TEAM WOULD DO in the same situation. Nobody would pay $40mm for Mike Miller. > [@Marley23](#): > > You’re right that Miller had missed a bunch of time with injuries. On the other hand he did not miss a single game this year. And yes, it would’ve cost the team tax money. They made a business decision, and it cost them. He also only played around 20 min/game. Do you really think Miller playing 82 games last season was any more than a fluke? He only played 82 games once before in his rookie season. He hadn’t broken 60 games in the 4 seasons prior to last season. Yes, dropping him was a business decision, but that was nothing to do with your thesis that the Heat shoot themselves in the foot by being “cheap”. Miller made no discernible difference on the team in the long run. The idea that not playing $40mm to keep him is being cheap is laughably foolish. You should know better. > [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, really. They won 66 games two years ago and 54 games this year. I don’t think you could find a single measure where they were better this year than the year before. And you think that is because they failed to sign better players? You don’t think any of that was deliberate pacing and a strategy of intentionally resting their 2nd/3rd best player for most of the season? > [@Marley23](#): > > They beat the Spurs last year and were crushed by them this year. Miller was not all the difference, of course. But you can’t tell me that made the team better. It made it worse to save money. LeBron and Wade and Bosh all sacrificed millions of dollars, and the Heat made it clear ownership would only sacrifice to a point. You can’t tell me that wasn’t a big deal. Could it be that the Spurs played WAY above their heads and the Heat were tired and hurt? This Spurs team is not THAT good. They almost got eliminated by the Mavs for Christ’s sake. The moves the Heat made were pretty much the best they could given the circumstances. There “frugality” wasn’t a big deal, especially considering they demonstrated their willingness to spend by signing the Big 3, and being over the soft cap consistently. Please tell me who they could have signed to have made a big difference? Especially given the CBA precludes signing free agents to new contracts that put a team over the cap. What makes you think they could have signed an impact player for a mid-level exception when the player could almost certainly make more elsewhere? What makes you think you would have been a better GM than Pat Riley? What do you see that he didn’t? > [@Marley23](#): > > Of course they were. Like? Please tell me a sensible deal you think they could have made? The CBA makes it easier for any team to retain their own players, so they would have had to “overpay” people (which is really possible given the rules), and pay a stupid amount of tax in order to sign marginal players, most of whom would not fit their system. > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove. Brooklyn spends lots of money incompetently, but they haven’t missed out on a lot of guys they wanted. That it’s basically a crap shoot even when you have an open checkbook. Ask any Yankees fan. It’s even worse in basketball given that you only have one ball to share. It’s like that rumor that the Heat were gonna add Carmelo to the big 3. Moves like that often result in the whole being less than the sum of the parts. The idea that Lebron would have stayed if only they had spent more is just not based on anything but ex post facto rationalization. > [@Marley23](#): > > You know whose defense and three-point shooting helped them in crunch time last season? I’ll let you guess. Hint: he is probably going to join LeBron in Cleveland. If you are talking about Miller you are wrong on two counts: He didn’t play for Miami last season, and he is a terrible defensive player. > [@Marley23](#): > > Their run is historic, and I did not say the team wasn’t trying to improve. Well, you said they were being cheap. Which is just not based on anything logical. > [@Marley23](#): > > I said they wanted to improve but weren’t willing to spend more than a certain dollar amount to do it. As a result they could only move the needle so much in their acquisitions; they weren’t going to shell out for a free agent who could have made a major difference. This is one of the results of that decision. Please name 5 impact free agents in 2013 that the Heat could have signed that they didn’t? > [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t really understand the question. Wade opting out gave them a little flexibility, but only a little. He was willing to give up some money, but only so much. I am saying the whole reason they likely asked the 3 of them to opt out is to make more room for other players. This is likely even more money they were willing to spend to win going forward. > [@Marley23](#): > > I just got through saying “It’s amazing to think of the Cavs topping the Heat from an ownership and management perspective, but from that point of view, they did.” Mostly because of a series of errors that left them with young players and cap room, they were able to put a more interesting roster together. But their fortune had NOTHING to do with ownership or management. > [@Marley23](#): > > For Carmelo Anthony, the difference between the Knicks and Lakers is about $32 million. For Bosh, the difference between the Heat and Rockets was about $30 million. Love is younger and thus not eligible for as great a salary (this will be his seventh season), but the difference would be substantial. A player’s current team can always offer him five years vs. four, which makes a big difference by itself, and a higher annual salary. We are talking about Love being traded now then signing an extension, or walking next year and signing a max contract. How is the difference tens of millions of dollars? ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/53 "2014-07-11T23:52:28Z")
Question about Cleveland. They got some suspiciously nice lottery slots after LeBron left. I’ve heard that Kyrie Irving (#1 in 2011) is doing very well. How are Tristan Thompson (#4 in 2011) and Anthony Bennett (#1 in 2013) doing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/54 "2014-07-11T23:59:06Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I didn’t hear anything about Wade going with Bosh to the Rockets. Did you mean Howard? I meant Harden, Bosh, and Howard. > [@brickbacon](#): > > You are wrong. Miller player for Memphis last season. Ugh, Christ. This should’ve been obvious in context, but I guess my wording was vague enough. The Heat had Allen and Miller in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Allen was not a replacement for Miller, and in 2012-13 they needed both of them. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/55 "2014-07-12T00:01:32Z")
I’m surprised. I thought the Heat had much better talent. Sure, they needed to make a few personnel changes. But it seemed like LeBron had a better chance of another title with the Heat. So, he’ll be back carrying Cleveland on his back? Just like he did before? He can’t win a title all by himself. He’s tried that before and learned that lesson the hard way. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/56 "2014-07-12T00:03:38Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Question about Cleveland. They got some suspiciously nice lottery slots after LeBron left. > > I’ve heard that Kyrie Irving (#1 in 2011) is doing very well. How are Tristan Thompson (#4 in 2011) and Anthony Bennett (#1 in 2013) doing? Horrible. Wiggins (#1 in 2014, yes they got that too) is probably a franchise talent though. Edit: ok “horrible” is too harsh for Thompson, but he is seen as a bust at the #4 slot. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/57 "2014-07-12T00:05:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m surprised. I thought the Heat had much better talent. Sure, they needed to make a few personnel changes. But it seemed like LeBron had a better chance of another title with the Heat. > > So, he’ll be back carrying Cleveland on his back? Just like he did before? He can’t win a title all by himself. He’s tried that before and learned that lesson the hard way. Kyrie is a legit star, Wiggins has the potential to be one, the rest of the team is already way better than it ever was when he was in Cleveland before. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/58 "2014-07-12T00:21:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ugh, Christ. This should’ve been obvious in context, but I guess my wording was vague enough. The Heat had Allen and Miller in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Allen was not a replacement for Miller, and in 2012-13 they needed both of them. I didn’t say Allen was a replacement. The point was that he did basically everything Miller did but better, and more often. It’s a stretch to say they needed both, and given the costs, the decision to drop Miller was sensible. Doing so certainly doesn’t make them cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/59 "2014-07-12T00:40:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I didn’t say Allen was a replacement. You said they didn’t need Miller because they had Allen, who “was brought in to improve the roster.” Since there’s no other reason to bring in a player, I thought you were saying Allen was brought in to replace Miller. > [@](#): > > The point was that he did basically everything Miller did but better, and more often. Their shooting in 2012-13 was very similar and they were essentially identical from three-point range. Miller is nobody’s idea of an all-world defender, but he is less of a liability than Allen. That does count for something. > [@](#): > > It’s a stretch to say they needed both They were certainly better with both, and I hope I don’t need a cite for that. I can’t find offensive efficiency numbers, but it goes without saying the Heat were much better in 12-13 than they were this past season in the regular season and the playoffs. > [@](#): > > given the costs, the decision to drop Miller was sensible. Doing so certainly doesn’t make them cheap. I appreciate your defense of the spending habits of the very wealthy Mickey Arison, who I presume is a stranger to both of us (which means I don’t give a shit if he saved money). I hope the money he saved in luxury tax payments comforts him as he prepares to build a team around Chris Bosh, whatever Dwyane Wade still has to offer, and if he’s lucky, Luol Deng or Trevor Ariza. And maybe it will. But it won’t make his team better. A few different choices in spending could’ve helped the Heat three-peat, in which case LeBron wouldn’t have left. He could’ve gone back to Cleveland four or five years from now and gotten similar plaudits. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875/60 "2014-07-12T00:54:18Z")
Wether the team needed him or not Lebron clearly wanted Miller around and letting him go was a bad idea for Miami. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lebron-to-return-to-cleveland/692875.md?page=4)